Rahi: Welcome to Organic Sexuality, where we explore the restoration of pleasure, the reclamation of sexual sovereignty, and the realization of our embodied sexual nature. An invitation to honor the pleasures of your body by embodying the pleasures of your nature. I'm your host, Rahi Chun. I'm a certified somatic sex educator, a sexological bodyworker and creator of Somatic Sexual Wholeness. Before today's interview with Craig, an announcement about a new somatic sexuality practitioners training taking place both online and in Ireland, that I will serve as part of the faculty Meta DNA and ecological bodywork with Narah Wilder. All details about the nine month practitioners training, subjects covered, and teachers can be found at WildSexuality.com/practitioners-training. You can enter WildRahi as a coupon code upon registration for a 500 Euro discount.

Rahi: Today we invite Craig Cullinane to the podcast. Craig's Journey of erotic and sexual embodiment and liberation is a beautiful trajectory of love, service, and dedication. His transformational, spiritual, erotic experience, first as a participant in a Body electric workshop led to assisting, then teaching and eventually directing the Body Electric Organization, guiding it into new realms of inclusion and expansion. He shares candidly essential elements of his various experiences as a participant that became the ingredients to sacred space-holding containers as a teacher and as director. He also shares the incredible gift that the Body Electric plays in offering safe spaces for all communities.

Rahi: So today I am very excited to invite Craig Cullinane to the podcast. Um, a little bit about Craig. Uh, he just finished serving as the director of the Amazing Body Electric School for the last four years, and he served on the Body Electric faculty for more than 10 years. As a coach, he supports his clients in centering their most treasured desires with simple habits that translate into real results, which is what we all really want. Um, for six years, Craig was the director of programming for rehabilitation through the arts r ta inviting incarcerated people into a process of growth and healing through artistic expression. Uh, Craig also holds a master's degree in Service leadership and Management. Very cool. From the SIT Graduate Institute. Um, a little bit about the Body Electric in case in case you're, you're not familiar with them. Um, their mission, the Body Electric School offers expertly guided educational experiences grounded in the erotic and its integration with the sacred to foster transformative, personal and communal healing. Um, and, and they have a long, they have a number of guided principles. Um, the ones that really jumped out at me is that the work of the Body Electric is sacred.

Rahi: Uh, the practice of staying in heart connection with self and others, cultivating the experience of wholeness, and that the Body Electric is a movement of liberating, erotic aliveness. Craig, thank you so much for being with us today. This is fantastic.

Craig: Thank you. I was so happy to be here with you. Thank you.

Rahi: Yeah. So, you know, as I was sharing with you before we started recording, um, my very first experience of conscious, intentional, um, cultivation of embodied sacred erotic energy was through a, a two and a half day workshop with the Body Electric. This was in 1990. Um, mm-Hmm. . I wasn't sure what I was getting myself into, to be honest with you. I was 24. I was the youngest person in the class. Wow. They were like, yeah. There were like 25 or 30 other men and using breath as the engine, we Mm-Hmm. , we rebirthed ourselves using erotic energy, and I was like, Mm-Hmm. Electric and buzzing for like a week after that.

Craig: Yes, absolutely.

Rahi: Craig. I, I can, I can say it changed my life because it really like took me on the trajectory of what I've been doing since, um, so

Craig: It changed my life too, for sure.

Rahi: Yeah. So, I wanna can ask a question. Yes, of course. Can I ask you

Craig: A question? Yeah. How, what, how did you find your way to it? How did you get there?

Rahi: So, back in the nineties, there was a really cool holistic bookstore called the Bodhi Tree here in Los Angeles. Mm-Hmm. And, you know, back then I was in acting school. I was still a student, and I went to the Bodhi Tree, and I just saw a flyer for it. And I don't even remember what it said, but somehow I was guided to it. I some sacred

Craig: Erotic angel put that flyer up just for you.

Rahi: Exactly. . Exactly. Totally. Totally. And, um, and thank God, thank God I just followed, followed my way over there. Um, so Craig, I, I love starting these interviews by asking our guests about the pivotal junctures in their journey of erotic embodiment. Right. And how that led you to the Body Electric. I, I'd love to know about your Yeah. Your, your path and what erotic Angels guided you to, uh, experiencing the journey you have.

Craig: Boy, gosh, that's such a good question. Well, you know, I grew up in a very kind of, I grew up in an Irish Catholic, new England family, and there was nothing about sex and everything was secret and hidden and, and, you know, in the closet and under the bed and, you know, and, and just, um, you know, there wasn't a lot of conscious erotic anything, you know, other than don't do it, or something that wasn't spoken about. And I think, I think I kind of emerged from that, uh, in the world when I left my family's home at 18. Hmm. I actually had a, had a deep experience of holding and carrying a lot of body shame, a lot of chronic body shame that I think a lot of people experience. I think a lot of, you know, men experience body dysmorphia. Hmm. And it was really kind of crippling for me.

Craig: It was, um, you know, I couldn't take my shirt off at the beach. I couldn't, I couldn't, there, it was such a wall for me between, for intimacy with men, erotically, sexually. I mean, I came out when I was like 19, but it was like, you know, I wasn't going into erotic or sexual experiences with people with a lot of intention or with a lot of, um, the capacity to really stay and be with it and, and explore pleasure or any of those things. And I mean, on some level, I think, you know, that comes later as you mature. Mm-Hmm. . But I, I really walked with a lot of shame, and it was, uh, painful and difficult, you know, and Mm-Hmm. . So for me, I was in kind of a life change in my life. I had been living in New York City for many years, and I had a lot of sex.

Craig: I had a lot of encounters with folks, and I, you know, in some ways enjoyed it. And, but it was the first time I took Body Electric. I was 33. I was living at East Mountain, which is a gay men's retreat center in upstate New York. Uh, I have finished up my time in New York City, and I was about to go to graduate school, and I had the summer off, so I lived there. And the deal was that if you live there, if you work there, you can take a workshop of your choice Hmm. As kind of like the work study part. And at the end of the summer, body Electric came in, and you know what? I didn't even know anything about it. Mm-Hmm. , I didn't honestly know what it was. I hadn't heard that much about it, but something deep inside me said that, wow, do that.

Craig: Hmm. You know, and I listened and I went, and, you know, not to talk a lot about what happens in the workshop, but one of the things that does happen is this very, very beautiful and honoring undressing ritual. Mm-Hmm. , where you are sort of consciously undressed. And these layers of separation, these metaphors of clothing, of your layers of separation are peeled away in this very beautiful and honoring way. And it was so deeply touching to me, it just healed something inside. Something about honoring my body, honoring and just acknowledging how much of this negative thought I had about it, and how hard that was. Mm-Hmm. and some, so something kind of shed or opened up or something. And then I went through the process of the experience, and I got into my body. I got into pleasure. I woke up pleasure. I woke up the breath, I woke up all of it.

Craig: And in the end of the experience, I had a very deeply profound personal kind of, I guess, I mean, I don't know, I can only say it was like a, a connection to the divine. Wow. I was kind of wrapped up in this sheet, and I felt like I was completely merged with all things. Mm-Hmm. , like, like, I wasn't experiencing separation. Mm-Hmm. . It's like I had come home somehow to some deep connection with all things Mm-Hmm. And something just fell away that I didn't need. Mm-Hmm. . And, and I, and I emerged from that. And that really began a major journey for me in my life. I mean, I took the workshop again, I started assisting them. I was the coordinator in Boston. Mm. Joined the faculty. So Body electric, in that experience, I is definitely the most profound per like, single moment of Mm-Hmm. , you know, a a, a portal into Yes. Healing, aliveness, connection, um, service. Yeah. You know, I say, I, you know, I say the body electric is the work of love.

Rahi: Mm-Hmm.

Craig: . Mm-Hmm. . It's the work of loving ourselves, our bodies, other people of the world, you know? So, yes. Yeah. I would say that .

Rahi: Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God, that's so amazing the way you describe it. And it really speaks to that principle that the work of the body electric be sacred. I mean, I hear the sacredness of that, that that unclothing ritual. It was a ritual, really. It was like this, it

Craig: Was a ritual, this

Rahi: Beautiful, you know, honoring ritual. And when you're being witnessed with such reverence and, and Mm-Hmm. , you know, sharing that experience with, with other people. Yes. Uh, it's just, wow. Um,

Craig: And I just wanna say there was something important about me walking to that and through that myself, and facing myself and being with my fear as I walk through it, and to be held by all these other people who are walking through their own fear. Yeah. Like, we were all in it together. Yeah. Something very powerful about that. Go on. I'm sorry. Go ahead,

Rahi: . No, no, I'm, I'm glad, I'm glad you, you, you underscore that because I, I do think there's some sort of creative al like collective alchemy that happens when everyone is breaking through, you know? Yes. Their, their previously, you know, shame barriers together. You know, there's just kind of an unleashing of this like, stored energy that everyone, it's palpable. Everyone can feel it.

Craig: Yeah.

Rahi: Um,

Craig:

Rahi: Craig, I, I wanna, I wanna, um, you know, I wanna ask you, because you were, you know, you've been on faculty for, for, for over a decade and, and you've been director of the institute, and I'm, I'm, I'm guessing that, you know, really res like, metabolizing and, and un un spooling that shame and guilt, especially from our developmental years, you know, um, is such a core part of the experience. Um, in your years of teaching and, and directing, I, I, I'm wondering if you could share some insights as to what you feel really contributed to the space, allowing for that for participants Mm-Hmm. for specifically, because shame can go so deep, especially with our sexuality, you know, in our bodies. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, the experiences of the Body Electric have been so, you know, like skilled that really holding that safe container and allowing, you know, this, this kind of thing to un unravel. What do you, what do you feel like, because we have a lot of somatic sex educators in our audience, and, you know Mm-Hmm. , a lot of what they deal with are clients who have a lot of shame about their body, their sexuality, whatever it is.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. That's great. I mean, you know, I think one of the things I think that Body Electric does really well is care for the participants. Like we have a deep instinct, and the teachers that I've had have a deep instinct about how do we hold not only the individual, but the group with such care and with intention, right? Mm-Hmm. . And so, of course, we have very clear norms and agreements and practices that we come back to again and again. And you know what I notice, I just taught last weekend in New York City, and, and what I notice is once those norms and agreements are in place, once people begin to feel like they can settle in and their body begins to get, oh, oh, this is gonna be all right, , they're caring for me. I'm safe. There's options for me if I don't want to participate, or if they're, you know, if I need to get outta, you know what I mean? Once the, their body starts titrating and the nervous system starts to settle, and they really get, okay, like, I'm okay. Mm-Hmm. , then it's actually not very challenging anymore. It's like some deep love or the best parts of ourselves have permission to start activating

Rahi: Mm-Hmm. .

Craig: Mm-Hmm. and I talk about that a lot. We talk about that a lot. That the Body Electric workshop and other places too, that do this Well, Mm-Hmm. , it's a place to practice the best parts of ourselves. It's the place to pr to, to have a space where you can practice being the most generous Mm-Hmm. The most, uh, uh, involved in your own self-care. Who am I as a giver? Who am as a, as a re as a receiver? Mm-Hmm. Can I have the space to really listen deeply to what I'm available for and what I'm not?

Rahi: Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm.

Craig: . And I think that what it does is it allows, 'cause you know, I, I kind of think about shame and guilt and all of that. It's like this shroud Yes. That, that obscures the truth of our worthiness. Mm-Hmm.

Rahi: . Mm-Hmm. .

Craig: It's, the truth is we're worthy. The truth is we're love. The truth is we're goodness. And the shame stories and the guilt stories, they're a shroud. And once those begin to soften Mm. And, and, and, and once breath comes into the picture. Yes. And once we wake up a little bit and activate that life force within us Mm-Hmm. , some of that shroud begins to fall away. Mm-Hmm. and some of the natural, uh, worthy that lives in all of us. Mm-Hmm. takes more of center stage. Mm-Hmm. . And then the question becomes, how do we get in relationship with that? Yeah. How do we befriend the truth of our inner worthiness? Mm-Hmm. . And the, and, and in my experience, one of the things that Valley Electric is beautiful for is that we get to practice that Mm-Hmm. , how can I really hold space for another person's process with compassion? Mm-Hmm. , uh, how can I listen deeply? You know, when we start practicing those things, all of this goodness starts to flow. Mm-Hmm. . It just has to Mm-Hmm.

Rahi: . Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love all of that. So, you know, what I'm hearing is, is, you know, like the deep care, the safety, and it's really like, you know, what you said earlier about people having the choice to participate or not, it's like you're giving agency, you're kind of restoring agency and free choice to their body. And Mm-Hmm. Within such a container where there is this impeccable, you know, kind of standard that everyone agrees to, of holding space, giving and receiving, like the natural life force can, like really Yes. Claim the space.

Craig: Yes. And it wants to Yeah. It, it, it, it, it's absolutely, you know, it's like when we, when we stop giving so much of our energy to all of the things that block it.

Rahi: Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm.

Craig: , it's gonna flow. And then that's, you know, and, and, and then that's such a wonderful thing to be like, well, what does this feel like? Mm-Hmm. , how does it feel in my body to have my energy be flowing? What does it feel like in my body to experience pleasure?

Rahi: Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm.

Craig: to get in relationship with pleasure. You know, one of the great tan principles pleasure is healing. Of course.

Rahi: Yes. Of course. Yeah. So powerful. So powerful. Um, wow. Um, so, you know, something else I wanted to ask you about Craig is, um, you know, I'm curious about, you know, people say, you know, if if you wanna learn something, study it. If you wanna master it, then teach it. And, you know, I, I know you've been teaching for over a decade, you know, with, with the Body Electric as well as directing it. Um, I'm wondering, when you stepped into the role of teacher, you know, after you had, you know, taken the courses been really, you know, your life changed, you assisted, and then you started, you know, you got on the faculty Mm-Hmm. . Um, did that, do you feel like that really, um, kind of like, you know, put you on the fast track of your own kind of erotic IQ and your own kind of awareness of your body's eroticism? And, and if so, I'm, I'm wondering if they were, if there were specific junctures that really kind of, you know, expanded that for you as a tea while you were teaching?

Craig: Mm. Boy. Gosh. Yes. Well, you know, it's great. It's really wild, because Yes. And, and also like, I have my stuff, you know? Sure. I have the ways that I'm, I am not actualized or I have the ways that I am, you know, the parts of me that, um, that, um, are not as realized as I would like. And, and, and all of it's in the mix. And then there's all these other ways that I've, I've kind of flowered Mm-Hmm. and, and unfolded as erotic being in the world. You know, I think one of the biggest journeys for me personally, you know, I, I am, I, I'm just such a natural extrovert. Mm-Hmm. , you know, for whatever reason, like, that's how I am. Like, I'm so relational and I'm so about like how I experience the energy of groups and Mm-Hmm. and, and how that impacts my energy. Mm-Hmm. That for me, the new frontier was really slowing down and really going inside and really being willing to quiet down enough and have the courage to just feel what I feel. You know? I think that all of us can be so distracted, of course. Mm-Hmm. . And why wouldn't we be in this world and all this. But to actually do the simple yet not easy task of just touching base, slowing down, giving my attention to what's actually alive in my body and my feelings. Cultivating that relationship, that capacity to stay, to learn, to stay. Yeah. With whatever's happening,

Rahi: Whatever's happening. Mm-Hmm.

Craig: , whatever's happening that more than anything has been my major learning edge as a person and as a facilitator of this work. And I notice more and more, you know, 'cause I think at first when I first started teaching, I was like, it was all about the, the drumming and the music and the show of it, and the, and the energy and all that's beautiful. And all that's part of it too. And it's useful. But now what I notice is I'm a lot more about, let's take that sacred pause. Let's just, you know, slow your touch down. Mm-Hmm. , let it come to stillness. People receiving touch, take a breath. What are you feeling now? What are you aware of? Let's cultivate and right now practice our capacity to stay and to actually discern what I'm feeling

Rahi: Yeah.

Craig: As an entry point for greater pleasure, for greater self-awareness, for greater love. So for me, I'd say like, that is the, is has been a major arc in my personal learning. Yeah. And of course, it's about, you know, oh, um, you know, I can, I can see the ways that I like, as a, as a, as a mechanism, a defense mechanism or a strategy of managing my feelings. Like just, you know, how I can seek comfort

Rahi: Mm-Hmm.

Craig: Instead of staying, you know? Mm-Hmm. And how I wanna avoid bad feelings or feelings that are painful or avoid feeling shame, shame doesn't feel good.

Rahi: Sure, sure.

Craig: . Yeah. You know, and it's kinda like, okay, well, here it is. You know? Mm-Hmm. I'm learning more and more that if I can stay with it, it actually transmutes it actually has a chance to leave and, and become something different. Yeah.

Rahi: Yeah. You know, Craig, I love what you're sharing, because this is where I think eroticism is really spiritual.

Craig: Mm-Hmm. ,

Rahi: When we slow the process down, as you described, and we're just being with what is, it's like, it, it opens up our capacity to be with this infinite space of being. Yeah. And I, I kind part of me wonders, like, when you describe your experience at the end of that first, you know, body, electric, uh, weekend workshop Yeah. Where you just felt this wholeness, this like oneness with everything, you know? I mean, yes. It was the breath, it was being embodied. But I also wonder if it was really, you know, being so profoundly with exactly what is that there's no separation between your experience and, and the whole of everything.

Craig: Yeah. That's how it felt. Mm-Hmm. . And it was, it was, it was kind of rare, but familiar somehow still . Mm-Hmm.

Rahi: Yes. Yes. Well, I, you know, I think, I think it's familiar because it goes back to, you know, the wholeness of being in the womb or, you know, maybe even before that, you know, I think the body remembers that, that sensation, that experience. But, you know, I really feel like, so, 'cause you know what you, when you describe that at the end of the, the, the workshop, how you felt this sense of universal wholeness and oneness. I, I, I felt that too at the end of my weekend workshop and Mm-Hmm. , I, I feel like, you know, the keys are simple, but they're very profound, you know, the container Yes. Of safety and permission. Uh, you know, it, it, it does require people to really put their egos aside and come with heart and service. But I, I feel like it's, it can be a gateway to this, like spiritual, I don't know, this spiritual embodiment experience that I'm sure a lot of body electric graduates and people can relate to.

Craig: Yes. Yeah.

Rahi: I, I would love, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Craig: No, go ahead.

Rahi: Well, I, I want our audiences to, um, to, to know what some of those simple yet profound principles and practices are. Um, you know, I mean, uh, you had shared in, in one of the blog videos on the Be site, you know, some of these, some of these tools of really exploring the whole body as the terrain towards eroticism, you know, as an example. But, but I'd love for our audiences to, to know what some of the simple key practices are, uh, within the Body Electric workshops that they can explore at home.

Craig: Right, right. Yeah. No, it's wonderful. Um, well, you know, there's a wonderful quote by Stuart Wild. How do you make something sacred? You say, this is sacred, and then you treat it that way. Hmm. And I think that, you know, that's part of it. It's like, you know, sacred, it's an interesting word. Mm-Hmm. . And it means different things to different people. And it's not necessarily religious or it's, it's, it's more like, what do I vest with importance? Mm-Hmm. , what do I say is meaningful to me? And I think an also useful question is, what do I wish was sacred? But I don't treat that way.

Rahi: Mm,

Craig: Good question. Right. It's like, you know, what, what do I wish I gave more importance to? I know if I really ask myself. Mm-Hmm. , you know, I, I I, I have the great pleasure of teaching a weekly online course. It's called Men's Morning Erotic Practice. Hmm. And it's kind of like a yoga, erotic yoga class where I guide people through an experience of breath work and self touch and self pleasure. Hmm. And there's meditation and there's a little group connection. And I would say, you know, again, what you were saying about this video, um, blog, um, you know, I like to say, you know, this idea of awakening our entire body as a erotic organ, like our skin is our largest organ, and it's kind of like moving the, uh, attention away just from the genital to, to the whole body. So I, I honestly think that one of the greatest things that we can do is just take a little time just to put our hands on our own body and touch our skin. You know, kind of like, imagine you're like just covering your skin with some wonderful honey love lotion or something, or Mm-Hmm. just, just slowing down enough to touch your own body. Mm-Hmm. , simple but profound.

Rahi: Profound.

Craig: And I don't think people think about it. It's like, you know, we need soothing , you know, sometimes there's not someone there to do that for us. Right? Mm-Hmm. , we, we can do it for ourselves. And if we just place our hands on our own body, you know, for two minutes Yeah. Five minutes and just offer ourselves touch Mm-Hmm. , maybe not even necessarily in an erotic way. Right. Right, right. There is just a huge practice, I think. Yes. Yes. I think a practice of getting intentional about erotic pleasure, self pleasure. Yes. And it has so many stories and culture about masturbation and wrong and bad, and shames systems and all of it. Um, but, you know, there are lineages and practices about if we tap and raise and spread erotic energy in our body. Mm-Hmm. , it is a source of aliveness, creativity, health, emity connect intuition.

Craig: Yeah. Meaning, intuition, spirit, everything. Everything. You know, we have, you know, in Body Electric during the, the, the, you know, weekend, the experie, the, uh, intro weekend, there's always kind of a sex talk, you know? Mm-Hmm. And I always start it by saying this kind of cheekily, I say, perhaps like me, when you were 13 or 14 and becoming pubescent, the elders of the village brought you to the temple of Eros to instruct you in all of the, you know, great lineages of pleasure and, you know, erotic aliveness. Right. And everybody just laughs Of course, because nobody had that experience because culturally we're so terrible. Yeah. At erotic education Sure. In this world. Yes. It's so filled with shame, it's so misguided. And it's like, you know, you, you, you look at, you know, the impact pornography, and it's just, you know, that's where people are learning.

Craig: And yes, I always just ask, I ask this question like, you know, what did you learn about masturbation and where did you learn it? Mm-Hmm. . And it's fascinating to hear what people say about, oh, like, um, you know, a magazine that my dad had or my brother had under his bed, or, or, you know, more and more, of course, it's pornography with younger people. Yeah. That's their first entry into sexual anything. Mm-Hmm. . And so, going back to your first question, I think one of the most profound and simple things people can do is turn off the, the screen. Mm-Hmm. and make a date with your erotic self. Yeah. Like, spend 20 minutes. Like, what would it mean if I like put on some music, got some lube . Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. and just pleasured my body. And, and, you know, uh, used my breath at the breath is another fundamental piece of it all.

Craig: How do I activate my breath or pleasure? The more I breathe, the more I feel. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . But if we can think to ourselves like, how can I get there? How can I get to 20 minutes of just offering myself nourishing, yummy, erotic touch? And you don't even have to if you don't want. Right. And actually, that's interesting too. You know, there's a big story about, you know, like the daoists Yep. In 500, you know, BC China were experimenting with going long periods of time without. 'cause they believed that our was our source of power. Right. And, and helpfulness. Mm-Hmm. And, and they would say that depletes our energy. Mm-Hmm. and our life force. Mm-Hmm. . Right. So I would say, can I touch my body? Just spend time touching my own skin? Mm-Hmm. , can I create a little space to explore? Pleasure, Ted. Pleasure. Mm-Hmm. Without screens. Mm-Hmm. . Can I activate my breath? Cultivate my breath as my friend?

Rahi: Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. And, and scheduling some, some pleasure time. Yes. Some exploration time. Pleasure scheduling. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause it starts to build a muscle, right? It starts to build like a work, like a, uh, a muscle around the erotic, around embodiment around, um, self-loving. Um,

Craig: Yes. Yes.

Rahi: And that can evolve into a lifestyle, which is, you know, healthy for everyone.

Craig: Yeah. We've been doing this, uh, morning class on Wednesdays for almost two years now. And, uh, wow. The people who have been coming from the beginning are like, just that one hour a week. Mm-Hmm.

Rahi: ,

Craig: They are noticing, you know, real changes in how they walk in the world. Wow. How they inhabit their own body, their sense of confidence, you know? Um, awesome. I'm really interested in, you know, kind of awakening the inner sexiness in us.

Rahi: Yes. Yes. Yeah. You didn't, you, you have a class on that, right? Like a, an online class. Yeah.

Craig: Yep. Yep. It's awake. This is for men folk. Awaken your inner sexy man. And it's like, you know, who am I if I tap that inner sexiness and I activate it, and I walk in the world from that place? Yeah. I like to give this, this homework assignment, you know, for, for this whole week. Every time you walk down the street, just walk like down the street, like you're the sexiest guy in the street.

Rahi: Oh, I love it.

Craig: That is in competition to anybody else, but just like, what does it feel like to be like, who am I? How am I, how would I walk? How would I feel? Mm. You know, like kind of fake it till you make it. Like activate it from within and experience it and see, see what happens.

Rahi: Uhhuh. Uhhuh. Oh, that sounds like so much fun. That's awesome. . But it's really, you know, I mean, I think it's like, you know, when I see kids, they're so, it embodied. They're so tactile. Mm-Hmm. , they're so like sharing their affection with each other. And somewhere along the line we kind of like get conditioned out of it. And it feels like, you know, embracing your inner sexiness and all these practices are just kind of returning us to our organic nature, really.

Craig: Yes, exactly. Right. It's, it's, it's just an invitation to be in relationship with that beautiful, buoyant life force energy. The erotic Yes. You know? Yes. It's, um, Jean Houston, her great book, um, the, uh, oh, I forget the name of the book. Oh, no. The Search for the Beloved by Jean Houston. She talks about, she talks about erotic energy or aeros as the, the lure of muchness Hmm. Where we're spiced and seeded and activated and evoked into becoming. Right. It's this umbrella of, you know, if I'm, if I've got access to my own erotic energy, my life force energy, and it's in my body, it informs everything. It informs,

Rahi: And it does

Craig: Every sense. It informs how I eat food and it Mm-Hmm. Like, create creative, work, life, everything. It's an umbrella, not just sex, you

Rahi: Know? Yes. Yes. I think that is the, um, you know, that's kind of the, the, the, um, misunderstanding that people have about eros and erotic energy. I mean, it really is the aliveness, you know? Yes. That informs everything, as you said. You know, our intuition, our creativity, our love. Just a love for our fellow being, you know, all of

Craig: That. Yes.

Rahi: Um, yeah. So, um, like, I'm curious, I'm curious during your, um, like I, I, I want people to get a sense of the Body Electric and because, you know, when, when I did my workshop back in 1990, I think it was just workshops for men and 25 years ago, it's really evolved into all genders. There's a lot of, uh, bipoc workshops. There's a lot of, you know, all women workshops. I mean, it's really for everyone. And I've been so impressed because I saw on the, um, on the website, like a whole thing, like a, a, a Jedi Committee on Justice, equity, diversity inclusion, um, you know, you guys support like, violence against women, land acknowledgement of indigenous peoples. It's really incredible. Um, um, I'd love to know during your tenureship as director, like, like what was it like for you to step in, you know, from being a participant to assistant to faculty, and then stepping into guiding this incredible Yeah. You know, like this incredible force and, um, and during your tenureship, like, I'm curious how, like, where, where was the energy guiding you to lead it?

Craig: Yeah. God, that's a, yeah. It was, um, it was a wild ride. And, you know, the, well, let me first say that it wasn't just me. It was many people. Uhhuh, there were a lot of incredible people who loved Body Electric, who care about it so much. And Mm-Hmm. You know, I think that Body Electric at that time, uh, really when I started imagining stepping into offering some leadership, it was probably like spring of 2018. And at that time, I see, I think the school was in a period of some contraction. Like it had Mm-Hmm. , you know, you know, I think it's, it's, you know, the next year is our 40th anniversary of Body Electric. Wow. Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. And over the years, it expanded and contracted and, you know Sure. Directors and different this and that. And I think that the, the owner at that time was really ready to get out and was, were kind of trying to investigate a way to do that.

Craig: And so, and also it had also, body Electric had always been, um, uh, uh, organized as a privately owned company, not in May, mostly because of the nature of the work. It seems simpler in some ways, but it always felt like it wanted to be a not-for-profit organization. It's a community organization. It's an educational, you know, organization. So when I stepped in with a group of other people, uh, to imagine this transition from the former owner, uh, we knew that we wanted to transition into a not-for-profit organization. I see. 'cause you know, the chief is a lot of people. Yeah. It was huge and huge. There's a lot of people who've been impacted by Body Electric and, you know, so in some ways we had some really generous people supporting us, because I see their lives had been touched by the work. Of course. Totally.

Craig: And so it took maybe like to the beginning of 2019 to make, to get the deal on the contract. And we purchased the school from the former owner, and then basically myself and this amazing woman named Sarah Zeal. And our great friend, um, Andre, um, Andres Cero basically ran the school for 2019. And, and we kind of like to say that we were, you know, uh, trying to, you know, fix and, and drive a car going 80 miles an hour, you know? Wow. Because we didn't stop any programming and we just had to go into this transition of it. Wow. And so we spent that year just getting our sea legs of 2019 on how do we do this? And we built the board of directors, and we applied for not-for-profit status and, and all of that. And it took a year to get the not-for-profit status.

Craig: And I was, that was lots of sleepless nights for me. 'cause I was like, in this Trump era, like maybe they're gonna say no to the nature of the work and all of this, and Right. We had to go through like a pass through organization for the Dona. I mean, it was just a huge experience. Oh God. And luckily we had this very dedicated, uh, advisory group that met every week Mm. Who really held it together, uh, all of us. Mm-Hmm. , um, Mm-Hmm. , and then Covid hits, of course. And there goes, you know, like with everybody there goes the, the, the, the, uh, business model. But Right. We had had a desire to, uh, create an online experience for Body Electric that we called bringing Body Electric Home. And again, it's 'cause 'cause like what, you know, what Body Electric did really well was bring people to these amazing peak experiences, but there wasn't a lot in between.

Craig: I see, I see. Which sometimes felt like not responsible almost sometimes, you know, I understand. Like, how do we bring, you know, but it was like, you know, here we are, this is what we can do. But what, what, what the, so, so basically when Covid hit, we just slapped like a zillion online classes up. I see. And people were so desirous of connection. Like, I taught a class that I developed called Taoist Eroticism, and I, and I taught it probably like 16 times in 2020. Wow. Yeah. Oh my God. They were filled because people were just like, I need to be in connection. And, and, and all of those classes were about like, how do I cultivate a self pleasure practice? Mm. You know, we did like anal pleasure classes. How do you learn how to pleasure yourself anally. Mm. How do you We did art and aeros, we did lots of things. We tried all kinds of different experiments, and the online experience allowed us to be experimental. Mm-Hmm. . And it checked a lot of boxes for us, us to kind of make it through Covid until we got back to

Rahi: Amazing in person

Craig: Workshops in 2021. I see. So that was a huge thing. And then another major thing that was happening was, you know, I'm 53 years old and I was the youngest teacher by far. And all the other teachers were like mid sixties or, or older, and we needed to train this next generation. So we brought in 15 people.

Rahi: Wow. All

Craig: Genders, all bodies, all races, all cultural ethnicities. And we were just like, Mm-Hmm. Right. Like, you know, and so now we have those people teaching our workshops.

Rahi: Oh my gosh.

Craig: And there was a huge desire, of course, to, you know, body Electric has always typically been like white gay men.

Rahi: Mm.

Craig: Mostly. Mm-Hmm. And we were like, look, you know, we need to, we need to broaden this. We need to do our work. We need to figure out how to welcome other kinds of people into this experience. Mm-Hmm. So we started, you know, we've started experimenting with, you know, men of color body workshops. Mm-Hmm. . We're actually having first bipoc women of color one, uh, in June Mm-Hmm.

Rahi: .

Craig: And, you know, all genders. I mean, the women's work started really in the nineties. So that's been happening for a long time. And so has the all genders work, you know what I mean? That's been happening for a long time. And it, we just kind of have been continuing to grow in and expand it. And, and we did a big, um, you know, retreat, a visioning retreat in 2019. And one of the biggest kind of communal pieces of wisdom that came from the experience almost Shamanically, was body electric is for everyone.

Rahi: Wow. Mm-Hmm.

Craig: . Mm-Hmm. . It's a gift to the world. And if it Mm-Hmm. If that's true that it's for everyone, then we need to do our work to figure out how to make these spaces safe and accessible to lots of different kinds of people who experience their eroticism differently.

Rahi: Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. I mean, what you're offering is such a gift to any embodied ero, erotic being, you know, yes. Regardless of, you know, just what you said, ethnicity or gender or anything. And so to make it available to every erotic being who's willing is, uh, just feels right. You know, because it is such a gift that you guys have cultivated. Um, but Craig, I'm kind of blown away that during a four year tenure, you went from a private to nonprofit. Right. You have kind of like made it multi-generational. 'cause as you said, you were the youngest teacher, you know, now you've got like a new generation of teachers and you've really like expanded. We've broadened the appeal to, you know, really anyone of any, any, you know, like any being, you know, much less go through COVID and like navigate that whole thing. That is amazing. That is amazing.

Craig: Well, there was a lot of people who worked very hard and who loved the work and are dedicated to it. It was far from just me and, you know, Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. for whatever reasons, because I was like positioned as I was and I was a teacher for the school, and I had had all these different jobs. I knew the Mm-Hmm. The school, you know? Yeah. It, it made sense that I was the director at that time when, you know, but, you know, our board of directors is incredible. Um, you know, uh, there's so much that people have given and still continue to, you know, we have a new director, a wonderful man named Tom Kovac, who's taken on the directorship of the school. Mm-Hmm. . And I trust him so much, and he is such a good man, and he knows, he knows and loves the work, and that's what's

Rahi: Most important. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. That is the most important. So I'm curious, you know, during this time of ex when it's almost like permission to experiment online Yeah. To see, you know, I'm guessing that, you know, the body electric, like I'm guessing people found you from all over the world, I'm guessing, right? So many

Craig: More, hundreds and hundreds and thousands of people started getting to know us and getting, because you know, guess what? You know, stepping in as your first experience to a naked weekend is a big step for people. Exactly. Exactly. For some people, the biggest step.

Rahi: Exactly.

Craig: So the online thing allows us this onboarding piece where they get to know us and they go, Mm-Hmm. What is this about? And then they get to know us. Right. So, yeah. And there's all kinds of interesting classes. Like I just, uh, this wonderful, uh, erratic educator teach psycho psychotherapist in New York, Don Chewy, he and I just for the second time, finished an online class called, we call it the 30 Day Porn Cleanse. The pause that refreshes. Ooh,

Rahi: Nice. Nice.

Craig: So it's like, what's the experiment of getting space from my porn habit? What Mm-Hmm. what happens? What liberates. Right. Mm-Hmm. myself and this wonderful teacher in Seattle, Mark Fleming a couple times, I've taught a class called Healing Body Shame for Mm-Hmm. G teaching men. Mm-Hmm. . You know, and there's lots of really interesting experiments. Uh, mm-Hmm. in the online world, so, Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. It gives us a lot of options.

Rahi: Yeah, totally. I mean, what a, what a what a way to take that opportunity and really experiment and run and run with it. That's terrific. But before you get off of the class that you and Don taught, you know, about the 30 day porn cleanse. Yeah. I think there are gonna be listeners who would like to know what, what these people, what, what the 30 day cleanse, uh, revealed, or what people discovered about their bodies or their habits. Yep.

Craig: Well, I think that we are creatures of habit.

Rahi: Indeed. And if we

Craig: Just have to step back and look at it, it's like, if I just think about how I engage with pornography, and if I can just look at it through the lens of this is just a habit, take away the judgment, take away the, oh, this is wrong or bad, or whatever people experience and just, just, just watch it. Yeah. Oh, I have a habit and I have a habit where I, it's at the end of the day and I'm tired and I want to go to sleep, and I throw on the screen and I watch something and da, da, da. And then, and then notice it and go like, well, what's the impact? How does it impact my energy, my body? How does it impact my connection with other people, my sex life? Mm-Hmm.

Craig: That, you know, it can have an impact, right? Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . And so what we do is we invite people to create their own experiment. Like some people are like, I'm not watching porn for 30 days. Mm-Hmm. . And guess what happens? Feelings arise. Mm-Hmm. things that they haven't, you know, using porn as a way to disconnect or to, to, to distract. Mm-Hmm. , um, you know, feelings come up. Like, I noticed we, we did it for the first time, uh, at the beginning of 2022. And it felt like a lot of people, what was coming up for folks was a lot of unexpressed grief. Wow. Grief from covid, grief from whatever. Sure. Mm-Hmm. . So a lot of that. So it's like, what, what arises when I don't have this thing that I'm using to manage my feelings?

Rahi: Right.

Craig: Right. That's one thing. Um, people are

Rahi: Like, that's a huge thing.

Craig: It's a huge thing. It's

Rahi: Massive. Yeah. It's huge. And I, I, I wonder the degree to which people realize that they are avoiding, that they're using porn to avoid their feelings. They're not going to it to get sexually turned on, but they're, you know, under, underneath that it's to avoid whatever, whatever feelings are coming up.

Craig: Yeah. Definitely can be. And, and so then the question of course, again, it goes back to how do I learn to befriend my feelings? How do I learn to stay? What's the value of that? Mm-Hmm. . Right. Because, you know, it, if, if we're going to the distraction, it numbs us, and if it numbs us in some places, it numbs us everywhere, and that means less joy, less pleasure. Right. Um, you know, some people were like, well, I'm still gonna watch porn, but I'm just gonna be really intentional and conscious in my body when I do it. I'm gonna breathe when I do it. I'm gonna move when I do it. I'm gonna see what that's like. You know? So different people had different experiments, but, um, Mm-Hmm. what was best about it, and which, which is best about it, is the beautiful honesty and vulnerability of the people who take the class where they just come and they go, wow. Like, I'm not alone. Mm-Hmm. . And I'm hearing people share their struggles with this, and I'm resonating with it, and Mm-Hmm. You know, again, it's like I come in with my own stuff, but I'm in this with other people.

Rahi: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's so, that's such a healing bomb, isn't it? Yes. I mean, when it comes to sexuality, I think so much of the shame comes from people thinking they're the only, that they're a freak or they're the only one they have, you know, that they're only one thinking about these weird fantasies, or they have these weird habits or whatever it is. And to realize, no, you're not the only one. It's actually very common. Maybe it's the norm. You know, it just kind of like takes the sting out.

Craig: Yeah. Um, you say shame dies in the light.

Rahi: Yes. Yes. . Um, yeah. That's good. That's good. Um, Craig, I'm, I'm curious where, so, uh, I know you had a four year stint as director and, um, like, uh, where

Craig: A little less than four, almost four

Rahi: Years, little less than four. Um, I'm curious where you feel like the Body Electric is going from here, and where are you personally going from here? 'cause that's a big, big shift in your own life to, you know, to step down as director.

Craig: Yeah. You know, body Electric, uh, I've often felt, and I've said, has its own Shakti. Like, I feel like Body Electric has its own consciousness. It has its own desire for how it wants to be in the world. Mm. And it, and it, and it happens through people. It happens through the people. And, you know, I think that Body Electric will continue to offer the tried and true workshops that have been honed over many, many years. Yes. And I think that's good. I think we need to hold onto what works in terms of the Yeah. Architecture of humans and their eroticism. Mm-Hmm. , um, I think Body Electric will keep the ways that we continue to really deeply care for our participants, you know, as a baseline. Um, you know, there's lots of places it's going, uh, you know, d different kinds of containers. D you know, we're imagining, like you said, you know, for things, for people of color, just for people of color, or maybe spaces that are just for non-binary or trans folks. Hmm. Just creating lots of spaces where people feel welcome to explore themselves. You know, I think that's the key. And it can look a lot of ways. Yeah. And, um, yeah, I mean, I would love it to go more internationally. I mean, we are in Australia Yeah. And Canada, and we had, we have been in Israel, Uhhuh , and, um, but you know, it wants to go abroad. And I think that's a good idea. Yeah. I'm as curious as you are to see where it's gonna go, honestly. Yeah.

Rahi: Yeah.

Craig: And for, and for me personally, I just, you know, I'm still teaching for the school. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, um, the, uh, host of our podcast, which you're gonna be on. Yes, yes. The Erotic Liberation Podcast, which is a joy. Yes. And, you know, I've basically, you know, my soul, my spirit, my inner self has been calling for me to, um, cast out on my own. I'm a coach, and, you know, I, I'm in this place right now of really building my coaching practice where I'm supporting people in Mm, I guess what I would call cultivating their soul habit.

Rahi: Wonderful.

Craig: Centering their deepest longings and their connection with self, uh, as a way, as a foundation for, for their beautiful lives. And I'm excited about that. You know, so I'm teaching, I'm, I'm teaching my own workshops, my own things that I love. One thing that I really love and care about is, uh, and I've done this with Body Electric, and I'm, I have done it outside of Body Electric too, is, um, uh, I'm teaching a course, uh, down in Ashe, Asheville called, uh, creativity and Eroticism. So like, that's what, that's my dream, you know, it's like, it's like if we tap and raise this pleasure energy and this communal experience, and then paint, or write or move, yes. Who am I? What can I be, who am I as neuro as a creative being? That's what I love. Mm-Hmm. And I wanna do that all over the world. I wanna do that like for a week in Bali or wherever. Yeah. And that's my awesome, that's, that's what I'm going, so

Rahi: Cool. Cool. Yeah, I feel, I feel the excitement in your body as you share that. That's really, really wonderful. I mean, two things really, like what you spoke about as far as like, you know, your private coaching practice of getting people in touch with their deepest longing, you know, their, like meeting their, their deepest, you know, erotic core and living from that place, like That's right. Wow. That's like it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, to invite people to create from that, from that erotic joy. Uh, I just, just imagine the, the energy radiating from the art, you know? Yeah. How can Craig, how can people find you?

Craig: Uh, craig linine.com or on Facebook? Yeah. Um,

Rahi: Okay, so, um, Craig Linine, so that's C-U-L-L-I-N-A-N-E.

Craig: Yep. Craig Linine. So I'm, I'm, I'm kind of launching my website right now, so if you go there, you're gonna see some landing pages of some stuff I've done, but you can kind, you can connect from me to me from that place. Or also I'm on Facebook and Cool Craig calling coaching on Facebook. But, uh, I'm gonna have my beautiful website that this wonderful man is helping me with, I'm excited about. And, um, yeah. So it's growing, it's building, or you could, you know, maybe find me through the Body Electric website, but Sure. I would. Yeah. So that's

Rahi: How Awesome, awesome, awesome. I look forward to seeing the incredible website, and I will know that this person has created it from his erotic core.

Craig: Yes. . And I'm so excited to have you as our guest on a, on, on, um, the Erotic Liberation Podcast.

Rahi: Yeah. I'm excited about that too. It's right around the corner. It'll be so much fun. Wonderful. Um, Craig, thank you so much for being with us today. I really, I just really honor your path and, uh, thank you. You know? Yeah. And, and just, you know, what you had to share with us today is, is it, I mean, it goes to the principles of so much of what the Body electric, um, holds space for, which is simple, but profound and really, you know, what I, what I wish for everyone, thank you so much.

Craig: Thank you's. Such a pleasure. I really appreciate this conversation. Thank you.

Rahi: How are the themes from this interview landing in your body right now? Are there ways you can bring more sacredness to your experiences of your sexuality? Whether in your self pleasuring rituals or love making experiences? Are there ways to cultivate deepening your heart connection with yourself and with your lover or lovers during your erotic expression? Are there ways your exploration of your sexuality for yourself can also serve as an act of liberating, erotic aliveness for the world? Links to the Body Electric, Craig's Coaching Services, and the Erotic Liberation Podcast are all in the show notes. Wishing everyone a happy and blessed lunar New Year and eternal blessings to your erotic aliveness and liberation. Until next time, take good care.