rahi
I am really honored and overjoyed today to be inviting, 2 wonderful, wonderful embodied souls to the podcast who I've known for decades before I even came into the sexuality realm - Frank and Judith

Frank is really a renaissance man. He's a veteran having served in Vietnam where he flew f one hundreds. He's taught flying and aerobatics. He's raced sports and formula cars, skippered-winning yacht races. Um, but he's also been a devoted student having done deep dives into studies and practices involving sex. Love intimacy and relationships and is licensed by the relationship coaching institute.

Frank believes that love and sex are a spiritual practice and that love relationships are the foundation of everything we do which requires skill and practice. He's been in the relationship of his dreams and is able to practice what he preaches with Judith which brings us to Judith who is a.

Judith
He does practice what he preaches - I can attest to that...that's so refreshing in somebody who talks about it. You know.

rahichun
yes, indeed indeed.
Yes, Judith is a renaissance woman a creative soul and artist. She's written lyrics for at least 10 recorded songs. She's written screenplays. She paints. She's performed on stage and she's also been doing personal career and relationship counseling and coaching for over forty years influenced by her deep dives into eastern and western spiritual practices. Exploring. What is really authentic and true within our relationships with ourselves and with others together. This team has coauthored 2 books "The magical sex book" which we'll get into and "So that's why they do that - about men women and hormones."
I see the meeting of the 2 of you who I know were devoted students of sex and intimacy and relationships finally having met your match when you 2 came together almost twenty years ago which is so cool I'm so glad that you're joining us today. Welcome.

Judith
Well thanks, Thanks Rahi. It's great to be here with you and it's it's really a pleasure I guess you all know Rahi but I do know him for a long time and it's been like he's always from the minute I met him. Looking for truth looking for authenticity. He's always um, open. He's always vulnerable. He's always curious. He was always like that and so this is the culmination at least of my time I think we we talked about knowing each other about 25 years. It's always a joy to connect with him always a joy every time and I remember 1 time it wasn't great being in Rahi's space

rahichun
Well I feel the same way about you, Judith - and Frank I know you less well. But I so enjoyed connecting with you as well. Um, guys I feel like a great jumping off point. Ah because there's so many juicy topics covered in your book that I want to get to but I wanted to ask what was it about meeting, relating and making love with each other that took your sexual and intimacy Iq to the new and expansive levels that it did - because I knew both of you before you got together or around that time and I know you were both. You know, practiced in tantra. And intimacy and relationships. What was it about meeting each other that made the difference for you.

Judith
Um, we both have I think um the same core values. You know for me ecstasy. You know you can have physical ecstasy of course. Um, even with yourself right?
But the thing is that makes you know everything really deeper for me and better for me is the connection of one soul to another and we both had that core value - we wanted to commit. We wanted to find 1 being. And be with one being who is going to focus in terms of relationship. Their attention on deepening the connection - how we relate and to each other I mean these are very simple and this isn't even you know about tantra or anything else with kindness with respect with support with intelligence with.

Ah, willingness to work through all the many conflicts that arose initially you know to know each other um and so you know when you find a being like that what that does in terms of your physical sexual connection.

rahichun
Um, sure.

Judith
Is that you're now you're with somebody who you trust who you know could let down everything you could just take a breath and be and be with that being and when that occurs and that occurs. Um.

Consistently day after day week after week year after year it elavates everything so it isn't like okay we found that we had a sexual chemistry right? Which know we did but but I had sexual chemistry with other people right? but but the thing is were the people committed to the deepening of the relationship and were they capable of it. You know because some people like want to but they're too.

rahichun
Were they capable and were they committed.

Judith
Damaged or not conscious enough to be able to really create a relationship.

rahichun
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, so that really stands out and what I hear is the not only the commitment but the capacity to do the deep dives and to do the deep work of really putting the Soul-to- Soul connection above everything else.

Frank
Yes, I wanted to say something interesting that after Judith and I met of course there was chemistry I mean we were at at a puja actually where we met in home walk.

Room and I looked at her and went O and smiled star it back at me and smiled and we're both connected in that instant. Yeah, and after the poha was ah we made an agreement to get together and we went out the following weekend and that was.

Eighteen years ago and I think it was about our third date Judith said to me I'm looking for a husband and I said I'm looking for a your relationship and she said I'm looking for a husband I said.

That that would be a long term committed relationship right? so so I said here's the deal. Let's commit to each other right now and let's do that for ninety days and see how it works and let's see how deep.

Frank
And how fast we can go deep and we did that what I discovered was that Judith was really authentic. She could really just be Judith and she put up with Wool B S and
I mean it was just like and I went Amen you know and sometimes it was sometimes it was uncomfortable and she would get briled up when I'd call her on herpes you know so but the idea was to stay there and work on it. No matter what and as she said.

rahichun
Um, yeah, no matter what are.

Judith
You know what made our relationship magic was our commitment to our connection and we walk on that and fought for it every day in in rituals that we do several times a day. So.

rahichun
Um, well I love it I Love it. So um, not only the commitment and being capable of that kind of deep connection. But I also hear the both of you were really ready.

Frank
I don't know that's my ¢2 worth

rahichun
For doing this kind of deep dive into intimacy and relationship when you met each other and I love the ninety day commitment I just think wow what a what an ecstatic ninety days to explore with someone in that kind of way. Um because and and.....Well, the the other thing that I really hear in both of you are sharing. Is you know the authenticity that you both were ready and practiced in bringing to your 2 relating and to intimacy.

Judith
Yeah, you know, Um, first of all when he said let's go as fast and deep. He says it very quickly. He's a fighter pilot you know and he got middle them. He said and he said it fast. He didn't say that he said it now he said Okay, let's go as fast and deep as we can and.
He scared the shit out of me to say the truth I had this fear I was bringing up like I don't want to you know I'm not going to just state you I'm looking for a husband. Basically if that doesn't That's not your thing I don't even want to go on right? It was my up text.

Behind I'm looking for a husband but I didn't expect that kind of answer. Let's just go as deep and fast as we can right? So maybe child speech for gave me a challenge.

rahichun
Yeah, right? yeah. Well yeah, it's almost like you pulled out four queens and he pulled out 4 Kings and kind of like tops you there here? Yeah exactly exactly exactly well.

Frank
Um, how soon you raise your and also I like to say you know it wasn't ecstatic in the beginning I mean of course it was ecstatic. But.

Judith
I was sixty years old when I met him he was 69 and no along 78 and he's 87 right so we met each other. We said we were ready. We were sure ready right? It took a long time to get ready. Um, but because.

Judith
I've had so many relationships right? including you know a divorce from a one divorce. Um I was I wasn't We didn't have like that kind of a honeymoon period very long and because he said let's go.
And deep. We really did get into things that would have been issue that were issues and were different between us and it or our own baggage or whatever it was so even within the the ninety days we had to work. We didn't we didn't have.

Judith
You know an extended Bliss period right? We had Bliss and yeah, the attraction we had the desire the excitement but we also you know had to roll up our sleeves that is.

rahichun
Um I see I see you right? Yeah, but you guys were ready and willing to do that because you guys understood that that's what it takes I mean you're being authentic with each other. You know the thing that really inspires me is that you know as as you just mentioned Judith you were 60 Frank was 69 and you guys were ready for the relationship of your life. You know at that juncture you know wanting to take advantage of all the lessons you've learned along the way which so inspires me. Um, because I feel like ah I think there is a stereotype out there about people in their golden years. You know of of hanging up that you know hanging it up. You know when it comes to sex and intimacy not realizing they they can they can be they can be priming themselves for the relationship and the sexual pleasure of their lives as as you guys have experienced.

Judith
Yes, yeah, that's true. Absolutely, that's um I just say one of the thing I just want say anybody think it's very important.

In the first year I got cancer about aric lymphoma and we were only dating a year I mean that was serious cancer and um and being able to navigate through that together and stay together and run together.

rahichun
Um I remember that.

Judith
Was a really big challenge because you know what in the groups that I was in of women even their husbands left them husbands and boyfriends a lot of men couldn't stick around you know.

rahichun
Sure. Wow.

Judith
There was that kind of um threat and that kind of pain. You know I went down £86 and I was bald so I can say that show during the honeymoon period that I was the most beautiful I been I was really.

rahichun
oh wow.

Judith
Like staring it was less than 96 it was 92 I think and ball. So so you know so in later years you know you may come into this but that's again where the commitment comes in the commitment that says okay, you know. I want this kind of relationship and I'm willing to fight for and I'm going to fight for that person and for us.

rahichun
yeah yeah I mean looking back. It was really um I mean I would I would not wish that experience on anyone but it really showed your true colors you know because I remember you know I mean to be honest with you I remember. Just have these images or or memories of how devoted Frank was to your healing journey. Um I can't remember the like where I I picked that up but I remember having just getting that impression. Um, and you know you guys? Yeah I can imagine. Ah, you know how how many layers you really kind of you know, got to see and feel and relate with each other having gone through that a year into your relationship. Um, thank you for sharing that.

Judith
Um, yeah, you know there is someone of the many many many relationship books I Read the guy who talked about the cauldron and being brucible of of relationships.
And you get grounded up you know and you've got to come out of it as something better and but it's it is a process. It's kind of difficult. It's not now I mean after 18 years you know we're cool, but it's it's a good thing to tell people.

rahichun
Um, right right.

Judith
But even though you might go through some hard stuff the point as you go through it if you're being being honest, if you love each other if you're committed you go through it and make it easier and easier better and better and you're closer and closer and things are you know the better are big. Well two I mean.

rahichun
Um, you go through it right.

Judith
Relationship goes through cycles of harmity disharmony and repair I mean it's just every relationship. It's just that you can't avoid it So learning how to deal with it is ah is is a real blessing.

rahichun
Yeah, learning how to deal with it and also understanding that that's the nature of relationships to to not take the disharmony as a threat but as an opportunity for deeper understanding and for that repair. Um, you know there, There's so many.

Judith
Exactly.

rahichun
Kind of directions. We can go here like for example, you know Frank earlier mentioned the rituals that you guys do several times a day I'd love to know more about that Judith mentioning the the cancer ordeal I I was curious. How um someone who goes goes a body that goes through that. How do you ah. Reignite the sexual aliveness and um, you know and pleasure in the body after the body's gone through that kind of you know that kind of experience. Um, and then I all I so want to get into the chapters of your book as well. But as a jumping off point. Um, how about I know there's a. There are sections in your book where you talk about easy rituals that deepen intimacy and daily dues. Can you talk about that as a way of cultivating and reflecting that commitment and intimacy with each other.

Frank
Well yeah, you know ah using rituals comes a lot from my fighter pilot background because there's um, as you do when you fly you have to read a checklist you have to go through certain procedures and you have to do those otherwise you might die. So ah.
That's a ritual in in our relationship. The rituals that we use the first one we call morning worship and we worship each other now I know that that sounds weird but but.

rahichun
Um, it sounds awesome. It sounds amazing.

Frank
Ah way. Do we do it. It's just really simple. You know we sit down usually at the breakfast table and I'll Tellt Juda something like you know I Really love you I Love the way you create your art I Love the way you create your life I Love the way you help your clients I Love your tits. They're beautiful.

Frank
You know, just things like that and and and it gets a giggle from her usually and and then I'll tell her something and it you know it gets repetitive every morning but it's not about what we're saying. It's about how we're saying it and how I'm looking at her eyes with love in my heart.

rahichun
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Um I love that I Love that.

Frank
And she's getting now and then and you usually he's the one who starts so I'm at the receipt point and I look at him and he's just so sweet and his intention is so earnest you know it isn't just the you know he's really.

Judith
Looking at me told so it's it's as he said I Love the words, but it's the you know the energy. So then I feel like oh well I love you because I Love how what you love and I I Love you know that you're a lover and I love what you're doing with your writing and I love that you.

Judith
You know cooked a delicious dinner last night and you know so whatever it is that you're feeling that you love about the person but it's it's like picking up all the good things that you see what.

rahichun
Yeah, yeah, you know it's it's It's so interesting how you know lovers feel so much of these things but don't necessarily take the time and space to create a ritual and express and shower each other and Nourish each Nourish each other with with. How they feel.

Judith
You have a fantastic way of summarizing and expanding a thought you've done that on everything even on your intra I Just want to compliment you and that it's pretty amazing your ability to listen and you know play back.

rahichun
Thank you..

Frank
But the so the second ritual we do is that at dinner time and we do the evening news and I she says tell me about your day and I just so I don't say was okay, no I say well I got up in the morning I did this after I read the paper.
Ah, did emails after I did that I did I Um I did some administrative work paid some bills do whatever then I started writing then I took a break and went to the markets and bought grocers and I you know on and on and it it sounds ridiculously boring, but the idea again is not the words that I'm saying.

It's the fact that I'm communicating with her which in turn generates oxytocin in her and that's the bonding hormone and that's what what women love to talk is because when they talk they connect when they connect they generate oxytocin.

And norpenephine and dopamine and a few other things and that makes them feel really good. So the idea of me telling her a is not so much the information although it can be important if I got something that's going on that like I'm stuck on my writing right now I don't know what to do then she can chip in and help me.

Judith
And or if I have a problem with this guy I'm working with she can ship in and help me So what I say can be important but the idea is that we're communicating and we're keeping up that connection and that connection is what's going to lead to ecstasy and magic in the bedroom.

rahichun
Yes, yes I love that that I mean that really brings us into foreplay doesn't it.

Frank
The what if exist into 4 play. We have 1 more mix role by the way. Okay, there's ah the last ritual is before we go to sleep at night. We say 3 things that we are grateful for or appreciate that day.

rahichun
Um, into foreplay. Oh yeah, let's I want to hear all the rituals.

Frank
What's something that we liked about ourselves that day and something that we did on that day and then there's one last ritual and that's every Sunday is our day of worship and that worship means tantric ceremony and every Sunday we take time.

rahichun
Nice.

Frank
To do a tantric ceremony and we do that using those 4 steps I talk about in the book. The magical sex book.

rahichun
Yes, yes, well for listeners who don't have the magical sex books. Let's let's review those 4 steps and you know how the the 4 steps really distinguish. You know what? what can be ordinary sex to really sex magic which is what the book is about.

Frank
Yes, so so I'll give you quickly the 4 steps and then we can talk about the first step is preplay and that's what comes before foreplay now. Most people know what fourplay is so we don't go into that too much then third is the play.

rahichun
Um, please, um preplay are yes.

Frank
Which could be the play could be oral or vaginal thetus and vagina sex or oral sex or whatever but it's the sexual play that's going to take you to orgasm and then the last phase is after play and that's where you bond and

And make that final connection and then you take all that sexual energy that you've just created and combine that with the energy of your thoughts which you use to create and that's like putting booster rockets on your thoughts because you put plots out into the universe with all that sexual energy.

And having that your partner holding those same thoughts at that same time that's like Beyond Rocket boost. So that's where the manifest states and then yes it is.

rahichun
Yeah I mean yeah manifestation I mean in tantric circles that is the sex magic. We're really kind of putting out to the cosmos this orgasmic energy. That's unlike any other as far as creation of manifestation. But Frank you know, as far as the.

Frank
Yes. Right.

rahichun
The the power of the 4 steps I I you know I think most of society. Well I think most men like the play I think most women understand the importance of foreplay I think most of Mainstream Society doesn't do a lot of preplay and I think after play is this in. Incredibly luscious potential in bonding and connection and communion that just kind of goes out the window because people are so busy or they don't understand the significance and the imprinting in the body in the heart space that that that that could have can you can you speak to? um.

The importance of preplay and after play please.

Judith
Yeah,, let me speak to that and this help my counseling when I have um, you know some clients need to um grow in terms of the relationship in most in terms of Sx Preplay is. Is like what you do when you're single and you go out on a date So didn for Play. You're just being with each other. You're just having Fun. You're just you know like in in Business. It'd be like schmoozing before you get your pitch right.

Anything that you could do that isn't sexual Well, it could be watching something streaming that you love it could be going for a walk. It could be going for a hike. It could be going for dinner. It could be um. Like we were doing in the Pujas the Tantric ceremonies dance. It could be with music. It could be I don't know if you're you could be going swimming. Whatever it is that you do together. That's fun, right? it's
Fun. It's relaxing. It's bonding. It's your no stakes you just right? So so that's the importance of preplay. So it isn't like okay let's get down to business and have sex.

But it or even let's get down to business and do foreplay. It's giving you that space and time to just be and connect have to teach that to couples, especially the more.

Frank
In our book. The magical sex book We have whole appendix on things that you can do suggestions that you can use that are simple. You know the hand on hard exercise where you put your hand I mean an eye gazing and just conversation.

Judith
You're looking at each other naked sitting on the bed. That's great freeplay. Yeah, just kind of stuff. Well um, but that sets the stage for foreplay because it gets it gets you present in the moment connected to starting to connect to your partner.

In a way that's going lead to that ecstasy. Yeah, and that's what we do a lot for preplay which is nothing we're mying you know, breathing and on heart night and just talkingunt sometimes her beautiful hour.

rahichun
The the emphasis seems to be on really connecting as soul to soul as human to human. Ah, you know without having sex on the table or or you know like as a prelude to it but just really connecting human to human. Um.

Judith
Yeah, yeah.

rahichun
And you know this goes back to you know like the rituals that you mentioned you know the news of the day and it's all about connecting and communication. So you really take the journey together. Um, love that love that? Um, yeah, you know I was going to I was going to mention the appendix in the magical sex book. It's full of.

Judith
Um, yes I mean that.

rahichun
Wonderful preplay for play exercises and practices. Um, you know that are body based that are somatic So your body's engaged which is so so wonderful. Um, let's let's talk a little bit about after play.

Frank
do think that yeah do I talk about it. Well I'm sorry say again one way after play after play. Yes, so we don't have mutual orgasms and I think I go like 1 in my whole life. And and you remember with the you know sometimes the idea of striving for a mutual orgasm is distracted and what's really important. What's really important for guys to get is that she comes first and you have to have to know.

Technique and the fact that the clitoris is the most important thing to know about and I'm just going to digress for a minuteity but there's not you probably know this. There's 9 pelvic nerves that come down from the and they go to different places on different people. That's why no 2 women are the same and 2 no 2 lives are the same.

Some people have very sensitive anus. Some people have very sensitive perennium Some have you know it just goes on and on. But so knowing that stuff and now when you get after Orgasm she has her orgasm and we usually have a list of things that we want to manifest.

Frank
And when she has her orgasm and she's starting down I say the magical words that that are going to help us visualize creating what what it is. We want to manifest then after her orgasm then I have my orgasm whether.

It's through intercourse or masturbation or whatever and when I have my orgasm again. We go through the ritual of of saying the things that we want to manifest so now the play is over. We're transitioning into after play.

Frank
And usually what happens is I'm laying on my back and she puts her head on my chest and her knee over my my midsection and my arm is around her and we just lay there cuddled for and or 15 minutes we may talk. We may not talk. We may doze we may.

Breathe together until and just feel that we've already put the magic out into the universe. So we just let we let that sexual energy that we just created envelop each other and just take that because maybe another week before we get to to visit that again. So.

We want that energy to power us through the next week so um it's you know, maybe it's 15 minutes 20 minutes that we spend in Afterplay I'd like to.

rahichun
Um, yeah, you're really marinating. You're marinating in the energy which is you know sacred I mean it's a sacred energy and then especially the shared energy is so juicy and potent and powerful. It's almost like wasting the best part of a meal. You know it's like you know, cleaning up the dishes before you get to taste that juiciness you know from the marinade. Sorry Judith I had interrupted you.

Judith
No I Love how you listen I Just it's It's really a trick for me to hear how you listen to stuff and where you go with it. So I'm sorry I interrupted you because it's It's like what you descend. It's like the afterplay.
Ah, what we said and we marinate and how you give it back to us.

rahichun
Ah I love it. We can marinate in the afterplay now.

Judith
Um, he um I was going to say the first books but that's why they do that men women in your hormone talk about why it's hard for men to have after play because us especially men. Um, preandroppause.

Um, when they orgasm the testosterone you know shoots up. Ah it goes down so otocin which is the bonding hormone is what explodes in the man and he feels all that part of the ecstasy is the oneness. It's the bonding.

Which is ecal of what oxytocin does. However, testosterone personal oxytocin in men so they don't feel that very much but the most they ever feel it is when they orgasm but very soon the testosterone comes in.

And now they're not women like bonding now they because they're full of testosterone now they won watch a game or now they want to go eat or now they want to go watch. Do something right? but for a woman after play is what she always wanted because women are.

Very um, full of oxytocin all the time. A lot of things trigger. Oxytocin verbal communication is a big one. Ah, it's just the puppy or child in this.

Judith
You know a woman experiences oxytocin Hopefully if she's having a good life many times a day and it's very of course huge in orgasm. But after the orgasm it keeps growing. You know so oxingho in this.

Widening out like a high and this oxytocin has now been shut off every place by testosterone. So for a man to have afterplay. It's kind of for many men like a learned response. It's something that you have.

Condition themselves to something they have to be vulnerable to or open themselves to feel now men who enter Pauseuse which is also discussed and so that's why they do that men women in their hormones. That's why they do that are are low on testosterone.

And when they get more testosterone they get high on estrogen and oxytocin which is why men mellow at that age is why men want to connect more.. It's why they're more sensitive. It's why they want more emotional meaning to their life right. And we're talking about this before you know this testosterone replacement. So a man doesn't have to oh one of things I did want to say if the man doesn't do test toster replacementment by 58. He has more estrogen than a 58 year old woman who's gone through Menopause because she doesn't have ah.

Her estrogen and and oxytocin are way down. She's notucing it. So ah, he is so he has they say gee women get harder men get softer now all of this this in this mix comes if you do bioidentical hormone replace and the hormone moment listen.

But for men or women. But even with that I think and I actually should find out if men who hormonemo replacement still have so much more estrogens oxytocin that they mellow and they become richer on that level I know Frank did and he has asoserine replace. Yeah that's why getting back to your question about afterplay it's for men who are younger to do that.

rahichun
Yeah, yeah, definitely definitely? Um, you know Judith and and Frank's book around the hormones. It's so just rich and filled with I think information that everyone like. You know we should learn it like math but like math english and science I mean it's something our bodies go through and it affects us so profoundly. Um, again, the book is um so that's why they do that about men women and hormones. Um, you know something I wanted to get to is.

rahichun
Um, you know there's a chapter. You know it's like there. It is okay, we have a visual now on on the video of the book. It's a great cover too. Yes, exactly exactly so guys I wanted to I wanted you to cover something because I'm sure you see it a lot when you're coaching couples. Um, you know the book - The magical sex book. You know, really goes through euragness and anatomy so thoroughly ah oral breath multiple orgasm practices. It's really, really wonderful. Um, you know and as we spoke to earlier you know it's really the intimate connection. The heartart communion that kind of carries.

That sexual ecstasy the question I have for you guys is for couples who have been together for many years maybe many decades and have fallen into limiting intimacy patterns. How do you support and coach them to reinventing or rebirthing not only the sexual intimacy but the. You know, relational emotional love affair because I see this a lot with clients. You know men been married you know 1520 years they get into a routine they get into patterns sexually where they kind of feel like they're in a box.

Judith
You know I've run into that too and and I tell people you have to create it. It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen unless you both are committed to making a change you say Okay, you have to say one.

rahichun
You have to create it right. The intentionality has to be there from both of them.

Judith
Really want to do what's going to turn you on because you know everybody's well I don't feel any desire. Well, that's normal is the desire's not there because it at this stage of our life. It takes arousal to create desire Desire doesn't create arousal. So.

If you do the things that you you do to to reconnect on ah on a higher level than you've ever done before we're in our the third act of our life. What do we want to do here and what can we do to get forward. How can we support each other in doing what we want to do.

To keep ourselves engaged and in the process of life and part of that is sex and if we do the things well on Sunday morning I may have 0 sexual desire that we have a commitment to meet in the bedroom with our clothes off and go through those steps.

Judith
And then desire appears because the connection between us I mean I know every inch of her body and I can you know it isn't like it's a new thing for me. But what's what's beyond that.

Frank
Is the the reach of her heart to my heart which goes straight down to my genitals and that's you know you have to be conscious and you have to create it on a daily basis and and preplay actually starts immediately after the last orgasm.

It goes on going. So I mean and that's what our rituals are all about that's it's just disguised preplay.

rahichun
I Love that? Yeah yeah.

40:16.47
rahichun
Um, yeah I love that I think that's so powerful because you know in rituals the body the you know the body has its memory. There are somatic patterns that that ah get get imprinted. In our touch receptors that will then respond you know, ah based on its memory. So these rituals are so important and I love that you brought up. You know that weekly ritual no matter what mood you're in you know because then the body it gives a body a chance to come online. And then the desire can can can really come on kind of come on line as well.

Judith
Right? Well you know there's I Love the thing that we used to say suit up and show up So in this case, it's unsuited up, get naked and show up now again, harmically after um menopause.

A lot of equipment get very dry and painful. Um, when you do ah for me, it's bioiddentical hormone replacement. You know it's safest Um, that's helpful. But but even with that you know your body isn't producing it So you'

Putting something onto your body a cream you know so but it's not the same as when you produce it yourself just isn't and you're going't have ah a cycle a fertility cycle where every month the middle of the month you're fertile and so the body.

Judith
Full of desire and wants connection right? because it's automatic. It's It's what nature told you you're yeah know you're hot in the middle of the month right anymore there are no so you know there isn't a cycle So when you're in a long-term relationship.

You don't have a cycle happening. You don't have the same kind of hormones you you you know had before and for me, um, well, especially after the cancer so that could be in the chemo so that could have been also part of it that desire just isn't there automatically.

Judith
At all created and and the beauty is you could not only can you create it but with Frank I've had even after the cancer and after menopause I've had the most fulfilling most beautiful most ecstatic Sex of my life created by us it. It wasn't in automatically come with a fertile young woman. You know who didn't necessarily have to be conscious. But if you are a fertile young woman then you're conscious. Oh my God What she know.

rahichun
Right? right? The potential there. But Judith I think what you're saying is so so important for listeners to understand you know, especially couples who have been in long-term marriages and feel like the and you know the intimacy isn't happening anymore. It really takes conscious intentionality. It takes practice ritual and ah you know experiences to to fuel the desire to support the desire and the body can respond in kind and I think it's so inspiring what you said earlier you know, post menopause post-Cancer and chemo. You're you've experienced the best sex of your life with Frank and you know you're you're in your prime golden years which is just so fantastic. Um, yeah, yeah, oh yes.

Judith
Um, thank you unless unbolded years I mean every morning but I get up a bit. Oh God hurts.

rahichun
your your your I should call them your primers you know because sexually you are in your prime years which brings me to my next question. So um, you know what? as far as rituals and practices and really like. Sexual self-care. Um, you know there are a lot of exercises and practices in the appendix of of the magical sex book. What are some things that you would recommend to listeners who are also in their golden years and don't consider themselves in their primal sex years. You know what? what advice do you have for them to get in to fuel the desire to really take care of their bodies so that they are primed to have the best sex of their life.

Frank
Um, well for me, you know it's I think that that being in physical shape. It's important to me and I want to wake up every morning and the first thing I do is go.

Do maybe 10 minutes of exercise some pushups some planks some stretches and and you know just enough to get my body moving and I know Judith has a ah half hour ritual of yoga that she does every morning right? after she gets up. So.

Frank
Keeping our bodies fluid and active is is really important because if your body doesn't want to work. It's not going to happen so doing that and then as far as man goes my my sexual appetite has always been high and and.

You know it's much higher than Judas so especially after the Kimo I don't put pressure on her to meet my sexual demands I take care of myself and and whether I watch porn or however I do selfulate.

And and I do sometimes I don't ejaculate I'll just get to the point where I think they call it edging where I'm I'm close to the brink of orgasm but but I don't go over the brink Sometimes I do sometimes I don't but the idea is keeping that.

Those channels open and as as a friend of mine says you know you have to celebrate Eros every day and arrows is the life force energy and to me it's a sort. It's it's a source of creative energy because sex.

Is the source of creation I mean we create human beings through sex. So if you use that sexual energy to empower your brain and you know from the tantra practices we can take that sexual energy from down in the first shopper and bring it up to the to the top shock right? And that's what.

Creative energy flows. So um, you you older guys like me put that into your your tool kit. You know, just just think about I'm not depending on Judith for my sexual fulfill I'm in charge of my own sexual fulfillment.

And women have to be that way themselves if they're if their guy is not up to doing it as often as they want it. There's nothing this ah and the hand reaches exactly into the right place and you can go take care of that stuff. However, you want to do it whether it's by a hand or by toys or whatever but the idea is.

Judith
Keep that arrow's energy awake. Um, for me, it. You know it's different Anyway, I mean men women are different anyway. But you know like I said desires and something that I feel. Um, I occasionally feel it. But it's very occasionally. It's what it's kind of created I mean to be honest, getting older and well I'm gonna go back. Things changed me a lot after the cancer. The chemo.
Difficult. It took me about 6 years to feel normal and I've never felt as good afterward as I felt before I had cancer and so.

rahichun
I see.

Judith
As you get older too. You know a lot of things can happen to your body so there can be a little bit of ah a struggle or a challenge in getting yourself to even feel good neither to the bad step which is saying getting up that day and being able to feel good enough to live that day.

And every day I need to psych myself honestly in the morning when I wake up I have to say Okay, this is how my body feels and I know I feel better once I do my exercise I know I'm gonna feel better after breakfast I know once the dayco's rolling. It's going to be good I just cut.

Myself you know have to talk myself into it I have to set my goals for the day. What's gonna happen today. Oh today's a great day. We're gonna talk to Roy that's gonna be so much fun and nothing. You know that kind of thing. So so part for some women.

Depending on how old they are and what's happening with their body in terms of self-care is really that kind of thing being touched with their body um doing whatever they can to heal it. You know I have good time there' the various things I try to and I we.

I go a lot to the doctor for various things. Um, you're good and into your optimum I do yoga you know have first thing in the morning you know, make sure I keep have good dental hygiene. You know all those things to self-care in terms of an old.

So that a you can live the next day you know and and b you are taking responsibility for you know where your body is and what it needs and doing the best you can nutrition.

And also youll health you know ensure that you're doing the things that make you feel better and positive making sure that you know like either talking yourself into it or if you know taking a walk or doing your yoga.

Or taking one or whatever it is seeing your grandkids. Whatever it is that elevates your your ah mood. You make you do it. It's like the whole part of how do you? What? how do you create eccenttic sex you create it. It doesn't.

Automatically to you especially in old age older age nothing Ill can tell you this nothing comes automatically to me an older age. It's like I'm really busy, creating everything I'm creating my health and creating.

My you know emotional mental. Well-being I'm busy craing my relationship. The thing that does come easy though is my counseling to be truthful um and more and more my art but that's only the time I get to them I've already psyched myself up I've taken care of my body. You know how.

Ah, eaten my breakfast I you know make sure I'm out in the air. But I think that that's that's that's the kind of Selfca you just on Mindful k.

rahichun
Um, yeah, yeah, and being intentional and I mean I hear from both of you. Ah how important self-care and self generating self-care is um. You know Frank I love what you shared about you know, taking care of your own sexual. Ah, you know Eros and needs and making sure the energy is circulating and and you know I mean with that the you know the blood flow is circulating. The tissues are vibrant, the nerves are responsive and Judith I love hearing you know. I mean it sounds like you're being very honest with yourself being very compassionate with yourself and being very supportive of yourself. You know, emotionally physically and and always and it sounds like the rituals that you guys practice and enjoy you know the lovemaking. As an expression of this heart to heart communion and connection like it's all an expression of your commitment to the relationship and something you know, really higher than than each of you. Um.

rahichun
Guys. It's been so inspiring to speak with you. How can people find you? how can people get in touch with you and get get a hold of your books.

Judith
We have a website because I was a fighter pilot. The website is called top gun. Love all 1 word.com and the top gun is ah is you know.

rahichun
Oh good top gun. Love easy to remember top gun love.com

Frank
Ah, big in the movies now so people should be remember top gun Love and the reason we we call it that is because if people were to practice their lovemaking like topco pilots practice their their craft wouldn't that be amazing wouldn't that.

Had that kind of training and practice for our for our relationships and our love. So it's about having the dip discipline and the commitment to study and practice. What's going to make you a top lover so helpful.com and we're also on Amazon the magical sex board.

rahichun
Love it.
both of you coach and counsel individuals and couples in love sex and intimacy is that is that accurate.

Judith
Um, yes yes I also do um, you know I do personal career and relate. Ah and also personal career and relationship and sexual. So for me a lot of times. It could either be 1 or a combination or all.

rahichun
Yeah, okay and top gun love and can they can people get in touch with both of you through top gun Love got it.

guys happy new year. It's great to see you. Thank you so much for being on the podcast I love this so much.

Judith
Um, love you too writing so wonderful to talk with you and to to see your face and to see your eyes What you got energy body that he emits isn't it. Best.

rahichun
Ah, ah, ah thank you thank you well I love you guys um I'd love to get together have dinner some time in February and and and catch up in person.

Judith
Um, let us know. Ah.