Rahi: Welcome to Organic Sexuality, where we explore the restoration of pleasure, the reclamation of sexual sovereignty, and the realization of our embodied sexual nature. An invitation to honor the pleasures of your body by embodying the pleasures of your nature. I'm your host, Rahi Chun. I'm a certified somatic sex educator, a sexological bodyworker and creator of Somatic Sexual Wholeness. Before today's interview, an announcement that the hybrid online experience Divine Union for lovers begins on April 23rd. If you're interested in cultivating the relational and embodied pleasure skills necessary for expanding the body's capacity for extended lovemaking, go to Divine Union for lovers.com. Use coupon code podcast for a $100 discount. I'm delighted to invite Leah Piper and Dr. Willow Brown, the dynamic duo behind Sex Reimagined to the podcast today. They bring a unique blend of deep expertise in both Tantra and Taoism, in their online offerings, in-person session work, and comprehensive retreats, but more so they're just very cool people who share delight and clear purpose and empowering all bodies to reclaim and inhabit sexual wholeness and pleasure. We cover a range of topics, including Sacred Spot Massage, why Tantra and Daoism are so complimentary, how they support couples, and how they empower men in mastering sexual energy.

Rahi: I am really, really excited for our listeners today. We have two, um, really dynamic experts, uh, in their respective fields of tantra and Daoism, and they've actually come together to form this really incredible dynamic duo and have created, uh, I jokingly call it an empire, but it's called Sex Reimagined. It's a podcast as well as a whole range of online courses. They offer VIP retreats trainings. Um, they have one for women, uh, on in Greece coming up, which we're gonna talk about. Um, but it's, it's a really wonderful synthesis of two really complimentary, um, ancient wisdoms of work. So let me introduce them and then we'll get into the interview. Um, Leah Piper has over two decades of expertise in tantra yoga, positive psychology, and somatic therapies. She's witnessed literally thousands of people heal from sexual trauma and awakened sleeping pleasures. She's an intimacy expert dedicated to guiding people towards sexual healing and pleasure awakening, and does so via, via her in-person, VIP sessions, retreats, and online programs, which cover everything from the science behind the four orgasmic pathways to female, to how to last 10 times longer amongst the other programs.

Rahi: Dr. Willow Brown is a Chinese medicine doctor, and Dao sexual sexuality guide, bridging sexuality, spirituality, and medicine. She guides clients from sexual pain, confusion and dissatisfaction to heightened pleasure thresholds, promoting and opening the receptive pathways that lead to expanded states of consciousness and an open heart. Um, it was really interesting. She combines sexual healing and pleasure with herbs, nutrition movement, and spiritual practices. And she also offers in-person intensives, retreats and online programs covering everything from the Jade Egg practice to living sexology a nine month mastery program amongst others. And as I mentioned, together, they co-host the Sex Reimagined podcast and a whole array of online programs. It's wonderful to have you both on the podcast. Welcome. Thank

Leah: You. You

Willow: So much. Such a pleasure to be here.

Rahi: Great. So, you know, I thought a great jumping off point so our listeners can get to know you, is, uh, if each of you can share some of the pivotal experiences and events in your journey, you know, of which I, I know there are many, 'cause it's been such a, an incredible like evolution for each of you. But if you can just share some pivotal experiences as a, that have informed you, you as a sacred sexuality teacher and leader, and also a space holder, you know, in, in your realm of expertise.

Willow: Yeah, yeah. Go ahead, Leah. You dive in.

Leah: Um, okay. So some pivotal pieces that have sort of shaped, um, my gifts mm-hmm . And also, you know, one of the ways that we establish those gifts and are able to offer them to the world is going through a portal of pain. And, um, I think the most, the most challenging piece of healing work that I had to do in order to support other people's healing was healing the sexual abuse I had as a kid. Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . And Tantra ended up being a big answer to resolving the shame and the fear and the guilt and the confusion that my system underwent mm-hmm . By being sort of initiated into sexuality at an age where, you know, most kids don't, don't get exposed to that. Yeah. So that was very challenging, very painful, but, you know, when you get on the other side of healing something that's been very painful, hopefully what you get to extract from it is meaning and purpose.

Leah: Mm-hmm . And so when I think back to those original wounds as painful and as devastating as they were, uh, they now bring so much richness into my life mm-hmm . And it's such a privilege to be the template that can show other people who are navigating their own healing experience that there is the other side. Yes. And you can take some of the biggest tragedies that you have and turn them into something that you look back on now and go, you know, I'm, I'm not, I, it's okay that that happened mm-hmm . It serves like a much bigger purpose than me. So I, I have to feel like walking away from that sexual abuse trauma has given me so many gifts that I would've never thought was possible, and the vehicle of which I was able to heal. So much of that really came from, um, a practice called Sacred Spot Massage.

Leah: Mm-hmm . And availing myself to receive it in three different waves. That really transformed how I experienced myself in the world. One was receiving that kind of healing modality, which is, um, to, to give you a short explanation, it's a genital massage, but it, it's a way to access the entire body through the sexual center mm-hmm . So, although a lot of the, the energy that's going into the body is through the genitals, it's affecting the soma of the entire body. Mm-hmm . So sometimes, uh, the reaction to that type of massage is ecstatic. Sometimes it's very painful, and you feel all sorts of sensations that are not comfortable. Other times it's a feeling of peace. Other times it's very frustrating because you can just feel numb. So you get to really encounter these different parts of who we all are as a human, and you get to navigate that.

Leah: And, and through that experience, there came a lot of self-realization. And the three ways that I was impacted the most was when receiving that massage from, uh, a man, having the masculine support my nervous system, my body bear witness to my pain, to my pleasure. All the things that arises in that. There's something about interfacing a man and having that man represent all men mm-hmm . Which really dramatically unlocked a part of my essence mm-hmm . And then to receive that from a woman and having the feminine stand in and bear witness to this woman's journey of being, um, a being and also a sexual being and, and what she delivers and holds and stands for as the collective feminine. Just so many incredible ahas and, and an understanding of self that came through that kind of witnessing. So again, it was like the feminine had a piece that helped me unlock a part of my essential self.

Leah: And then lastly, giving myself that massage and being responsible for my own self-healing, and to establish an authentic experience of which no one can give you. Like, that's, that's an inside job. That's a journey you can, you take on your own. And what I loved is that that modality helped me experience that on a, a spiritual, emotional, physical, and sexual and energetic level. So that is probably like the biggest curriculum mm-hmm . That I had the biggest amount of transformation in my own life, and it is still the cornerstone of my curriculum that provides a container for other people's transformation. Mm-hmm . Whether they're looking to just become orgasmic or whether they are overcoming trauma. Um, it has such a wide range. And lastly, I would say the other thing that's really shaped my ability to be a space holder has been, um, something that I call energetic responsibility. Really learning the energetic arts Mm. And how profound it is in helping us be accountable and responsible for impacting others for our own triggers, for the way that we create safety in our world. Mm-hmm. So, uh, without going into a lot of details of that, I can just say it's been a really rich part of, um, of how I operate in the world, especially as a facilitator and as a partner.

Rahi: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Wow. There's so many, there's so many rich jewels in what you just shared, uh, layout. I, I feel like the first thing you started with as far as like, recognizing that you have the, the, the somatic embodied like imprint and, and, uh, I think you called it, um, um, uh, like because you've gone through the journey from being a survivor to now being at a place where you can look back and see the gifts in that, I mean, that is such a powerful reflection that you've gotten to the other side. And because you've gone through that, you can, I mean, one, you're an example, but you also know from your own experience how to guide others through that, you know?For sure.

Rahi: I mean, there's a reason it's called Sacred Spot. It is sacred. It's just this portal. Um, and so the power of that is so fantastic. Willow.

Willow: Yeah. I love, I love listening to Leah tell her her healing journey and her healing story and the, the work she did with Sacred Spot. It's really powerful tuned into our, um, podcast y'all, because she talks in a lot more depth than some of our episodes around that. Um, so I, my sexual trauma happened later on in life. I was 19, so I had, um, you know, probably a lot more like foundation, but also it was very, um, I would say very insecure 19 year olds, you know, at that point, like as many 19 year olds are. And, um, I basically, my trauma was a one off situation, although there were a couple of, of questionable moments in my sexual journey. Um, but this one in particular was, uh, it was included rufinol, so did the date rate drug and, um, and rape. So, uh, that happened up in the Santa Cruz mountains up at the Brookdale Lodge.

Willow: And it was wild. 'cause when I started doing the work with Source Tanha, where Alea has taught with Charles Muir for years, it was, it's just where we did our, our like, deep dive 10 day teacher training. Mm-hmm . Was like literally right up the road from the Brookdale Lodge. So it was pretty auspicious to just be right at the, you know, at the scene of where it kind of all began for me. And that, um, that from that, I, I got pregnant from that rape and just went on a huge healing journey from that point forward, decided to not keep the baby, decided to just get into the healing arts. I started to heal myself. I started to see how magical healing was, and I was like, okay, this is what I'm doing. This is what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life.

Willow: And I just started doing, um, let's see, all the different healing modalities, like, started teaching yoga, started doing massage, went into Chinese medicine school, you know, just kind of ran, ran through it all, Qigong and Pilates and just, so I'm a bit of a walking wellness center at this point in my journey. truly. And, um, . And yeah, I mean, I just, and, and do, you know, helping people on their, on their sexual journey and helping them find their sexuality? For me, it's a little bit like giving someone ice cream for the first time. 'cause it's so amazing when they start to discover these places inside of themselves that they've never felt before either. They might feel it physically, like they might get tey or have some kind of orgasm that they've never had before. Or they might have like these expanded awake places of consciousness that show them how much, um, how much they're capable of.

Willow: And so I really love to work with all individuals and couples, you know, around, um, all the different, different levels of opening up their sexuality. You know, Leah was speaking about the sacred spot, the, but it, it's that point, but it runs all the way through the whole body. And really, we can access a sexual energy at any point in the body. We can access it through the third eye. We can access it through the point right here on the wrist, you know, we can access it through any of the meridians or any of the acupuncture points. And I think that there's just a, a whole wealth of, of wisdom and magic that is innate within each and every one of us that we get to choose to explore. And sometimes it can feel like a can of worms. Like, I don't wanna touch that, I don't wanna take the lid off of that, but it is worth it.

Willow: And, you know, as Lou was speaking too, like, once you get to the other side of that kind of, you know, painful point, that dark Knight of the Soul Point, it's like all, all of the, all the sun starts to shine and the roses start to open. And it's just like you start to see, um, and hear things differently in your life. It's like you have a different lens on, and it's a lens that's filled with more of vitality, more creativity, um, sexual energy, we call it Jing Chi and the Dao, we call it Shakti in the, in the re tradition. And it's, it's the life force energy that is in everything. So you start to, um, walk through the world feeling so much more connected, not just to the people that you love and the people you're close to, but to all people and all things, not, not even just like trees and, and animals and rocks, but even just like inanimate objects. You know, there's more of a like a relationship to your desk in your chair. And, you know, the things that, um, we don't think of as, as having living energy, but they all do. Mm-hmm .

Rahi: You know, it's so interesting listening to both of your journeys because you, you've both, you're both survivors, um, of, of a sexual violation. And you've both had the courage to really move through and metabolize those experiences, you know, in your, in your, uh, in your unique journeys to get to a place where, um, you're on the other side and, and you can look back and, and recognize how it's informed your journey. And now you are holding space for others to do that as well. Um, but I, I just, you know, listening to you guys share, I mean, certainly the Sacred Spot Massage, Leah, what you were sharing about, like how important it was to, um, experience that with a, a, a masculine presence, a feminine presence, and then with yourself. And then Willow, just your knowledge about the, you know, the meridians and how, you know, there is a, a different access point to our sexual energy, you know, throughout the body. I'm just, I'm really curious how there's such a, a depth and breadth that each of you bring. How do you guys synthesize these two ancient wisdoms in your space holding in your trainings and retreats and, and, and, um, and, and VIP experiences

Willow: Effortlessly? . . Yeah. Um, no, I mean, we, 'cause

Rahi: They do compliment each other, so, well, I, yeah. I think there's, there's, would, would love to hear like, oh, yeah, okay, we, we understand because there's such great insights. But I'm curious, like, how do you guys interweave that? Um,

Leah: Well, I, I would say first of all, like now that Willow and I are in each other's orbit, like there's probably nothing that I teach that she doesn't couldn't teach or doesn't teach to, right? So now it's like we share such a common language because we are in each other's fields so much. I've learned so much from Willow that this interplay's very easy where we can bounce back and forth with these various concepts because they're both inside of us. So it's not like we only hold, like, Leah only holds the tantra and Willow only holds the Tao. We're very much interchangeable and fluid with, with the content. But one of the things that I think is really rich is if we were to take a look at like, how would I describe Tantra and Taoism and how they're the same, and how they're different is in, in tantra, we take sexual energy, we build it up, we amplify it, we move it through the system so that we become more awake.

Leah: And in that awakening, it pushes through anything that isn't love. And that's why it's so healing, right? The things that are, that I haven't been metabolized and gotten stuck in the body, it, when we have love pouring into you, it gives it an experience so that what isn't love can come up and out. Mm-hmm . Purifying the body, purifying the emotion so that you can then fill yourself with love because you've just emptied the junk. And with that love, you can magnify and amplify pleasure. So that's why people, that so many results of practicing tantra lead people to bliss and nirvana and these extended transcendent experiences of pleasure. So we use that sexual energy, we heal the emotions, and we further that into pleasure. And that furthers into enlightenment. Taoism takes that same sexual energy and uses it to purify the body so that the body is filled with more vitality.

Leah: It connects us to nature so that our relationship to nature is more profound, is deeper, is in greater harmony. So you can take that sexual energy and you can feed it to the gland. You can feed it to the organs, and by doing so, you make your body healthier. And also makes you filled with vitality, which also produces, again, a very similar result. Mm-hmm . Which is greater happiness, more peace, greater pleasure, extended states of transcendence and awareness of yourself, and its harmony with nature. So you can see how they're, they're different, but they're also the same.

Rahi: Yeah, yeah. They are so, so complimentary and similar.

Willow: Yeah. And then the way that, you know, Leah and I teach together and, and come together, it's like I was, um, interviewing one of our listeners, because I'm doing a little interviewing listeners these days, and she was like, I like it when you guys disagree. I was like, oh, do we disagree , you know, she's like, because it just gives me different perspectives on like, oh, I might have been holding the one you, you were holding Willow, but then Leah says something else and it turns on something else in my brain. And so I think that, yeah. That's fun. Um, we, we actually don't disagree a lot. It's very rare. But, you know, I think that, I think that we both, um, bring different sort of, well, just different perspective lenses, experiences. Mm-hmm . Similar in many, many ways. But then, you know, occasionally we can really, um, light something up in somebody that they may not have thought of before, whilst they're already warmed up and like, on the same page with us as a team mm-hmm . You know mm-hmm

Leah: . Yeah. We do gentle pushbacks, you know, which is, is fun. Uhhuh

Willow: Uhhuh.

Rahi: Yeah. I think it's, it's, uh, it probably hones both of your insights, you know, as you were sharing Leah, you know, both of you are so familiar with each other's body of, body of bodies of work. It kind of blends into one now. Um, but they are, you know, like in my experience with both fields, I mean, you can almost use different, uh, semantic words to describe the same experience. I mean, what is sexual energy as life force energy? And, and, and in Dao, you know, what is metabolizing the emotions is really clearing the organs and like clearing the channels. Mm-hmm . You know, in Dao they're very, very complimentary. And so it's, it's very exciting. Like this, this combo, it's like you're bringing two different tool toolkits, you know, for really the same result or the same, you know, very similar experience.

Willow: I, yeah. I had a, um, a teacher along the journey. One of my Chinese medicine teachers was like, it all comes from Tibet. 'cause he was, he was pretty adept at the, at the Ayurvedic medicine as well. And Tantra is more from the Indian tradition, the Vedic tradition, and the Chinese medicine more from China. Um, and he just had this theory, pretty strong theory. This teacher has since passed. But he was always like, it's all coming from the from the layers. Yeah. Yeah. . Yeah. So,

Rahi: Yeah. Yeah. I,

Leah: Yeah. I think another distinction, um, that people often we'll talk about is tantra tends to have more of a feminine essence. Like its teachings have sort of this, it's, it's the goddess is always brought in and there is a really beautiful piece that feels very of the feminine. And then with Taoism, there's a very strong masculine essence because there's a part of like, discipline and commitment. And there are certain practices have sort of more of a masculine mm-hmm. Flavor mm-hmm. And agenda. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm . And I think that's another thing that's really fun about playing with both, um, with both schools. Mm-hmm

Rahi: . That's a really interesting distinction. And I would agree. Sorry, Willow, were you gonna jump into

Willow: No, I was just gonna say that. And at the same time, they both are so honoring of the masculine and feminine. Yeah. You know? Yes. Very holistic in their approach.

Rahi: Yes. Yes. Very holistic. Okay. Speaking of, um, uh, metabolizing emotions and clearing channels, I wanted to ask you guys, when you're working with couples, um, how do you support nervous systems in past wounding from hijacking the, you know, usually the shared desired intimacy that, that comes in the moment? 'cause we've all seen couples, you know, when we hold space for couples, a lot of times they're ping ponging and getting, you know, getting, it's like triggers going ping pong. Yeah. You know, when in fact deep down they're wanting the same thing. Mm-hmm . And, um, how do you, um, support nervous systems and, and, uh, and empower couples to have these tools to support themselves, like in their privacy?

Leah: Yeah. So I think first is getting them on the same page around what are we doing here? So one of the things that I try to help couples do is opening up the work with having a shared perspective. Mm-hmm . Which means being curious. Mm-hmm . Because when we are in conflict, um, judgment is just right there at the surface. We're judging ourselves or we're judging them, we're blaming ourselves or we're blaming them. And so to be able to get really curious when we start to notice judgments arise mm-hmm . So that they're leaning in, because that gives the brain a break from going into attack and makes us go, huh. That is really interesting that my tone of voice is always like that when I get triggered. Mm-hmm . Okay, that's good information. So that we have something that we are, we return to when things get a little hot.

Leah: Mm-hmm . Um, the other thing is making a commitment that you are willing to be influenced by your partner. Mm-hmm . That you're willing to be influenceable. You're not just going to always hold a defensive structure and then close everything down and not really choose. Like, your partner may have really important information for you, you may not like the information mm-hmm . But if you can be willing to be influenceable mm-hmm . It shifts your ability to listen mm-hmm . And then also tracking when we're getting flooded, because when we start to get flooded emotionally, um, our heart rate starts to beat faster and it shuts off our listening ability mm-hmm . So to be able to go, okay, it's now time to just have a break from speaking and allow our heart rate to go down mm-hmm . And so giving them tools, something like Havening, which is a type of self-soothing that you can do in the moment, and it only takes a couple of minutes to come outta the flooded state once the heart rate has shifted mm-hmm .

Leah: So that you can get back to listening mm-hmm. To being able to deeply listen to yourself and to be able to deeply listen to your partner mm-hmm . So that you can come towards each other. Mm-hmm . And then again, that would be the last principle that I wanna share right now is sometimes we get in this defensive habit of turning away from each other in conflict, but if we can learn to turn towards each other, even when it's hard, then that increases our chances to become closer, even though we're in an obstacle. So we can actually, you know, the end result is, let's have even more intimacy because we face something difficult together, and then that makes the bond even stronger.

Rahi: Love it. Love it. Yeah.

Willow: Absolutely. It's so powerful, the turning towards each other, and I feel like it's, um, it's, it's often coming stemming from childhood, you know, this mm-hmm . And, and like, where, where was, where was our original sort of like wound or our original sort of like, I don't feel safe, you know, and, and at what point in time did we develop the pa the pattern of protection to keep ourselves safe around that? And so, you know, for for many people, the turning away is, is part of that like, quick knee jerk reaction. Like, I'll go figure it out by myself. I'll go over here and, and not work it out with my partner. I'm so, you know, I'm so flooded that I can't be next to that person. And there is value for sure in taking some space until you can, like, with truth and with full presence and essence turned toward each other.

Willow: Um, but I think that, you know, in the turning toward each other, it's, there's a nervous system co-regulation that needs to happen and sort of a, a reset point of your nervous systems to, to get back on the same boat, to get back on the same page, because it's so easy for, um, for, for those nervous systems to get re-triggered again in just like, in one single word. And that brings us to samskara. You know, the, that brings us back to these original wounds and, you know, these, these moments in life when we were, um, not safe, you know? And so I think it's, it's really like, if you can think about your partner in a way of like, how can, what can I do? Or how can I make them feel safe? Then I think that that creates a lot more bond and a lot more trust.

Willow: And sexuality is one of the places where we feel the least safe, especially in this culture and the upbringing that we get societally with our, you know, sexual education that isn't really there. And so, um, so I think that, you know, when, you know, people are coming to us, a lot of times when there is like sexual disparity, one wants it more than the other, or there's just like, they keep getting triggered or it's not working, or they're just not having it at all, or, um, you know, so many variations of that. And, and so yeah, getting them to, to learn each other's protective pattern and how to be with that protective pattern inside of the realm of sexuality is a huge key to a big lock locked door. Mm-hmm . So, yeah. Yeah. And that was kind of part of what Leah was talking about earlier with what she studied with the energetic responsibility. You know, there is a, a real, like understanding your partner's pattern. Anyone you're intimate with, the, the children, the parents, anyone mm-hmm . How they keep themselves safe. If you, if you can understand their method for that and learn how to be with it in a way that gets them out of pattern and into presence, then, um, you know, you are gonna be winning in your intimate relationships.

Leah: Yeah. I have to say, if I can just piggyback on that mm-hmm . There's so much value there, because oftentimes we're in, we're with partners who do different patterns

Willow: Mm-hmm .

Leah: And so once you can start to learn, okay, this is what I do when I get triggered, here's the pattern. Oh, that's what my, that's what my partner does. Yeah. Okay. So now you can start to go, okay, ding, ding, ding, I'm going into pattern mm-hmm . And now that isn't been working, it's not solving the problems that I hope it's creating separation. Mm-hmm . Instead of closeness, then you start to have compassion for yourself. You start to have compassion for your partner, you start to understand their ecosystem a little bit mm-hmm . And then you've got strategies so that you make a commitment, I'm gonna come back to love as quickly as possible when I find myself separate. Mm-hmm . I'm gonna find more effective safety strategies that are not based on my childhood conditioning from when I was a little kid, but now I'm gonna take a look at how can I be more conscious of myself.

Leah: Mm-hmm . How can I be more supportive of my partner and, and give that gift of understanding. Because one of the most healing things in partnership, and it sounds so simple, but it's still so hard to do, is when someone understands you, it, like, it unplugs you from the chaos a little bit. It's like they don't have to agree with you, but if someone understands how you got to where you are in that moment of pain mm-hmm. You're no longer alone. Yeah. It, it's somehow like that feeling of separation dissolves because they get you. Mm-hmm. They still may not like your reaction, but they understand how you're feeling and, and the path of how you got there. Mm-hmm . And then, like, there's a place of connection in that. And so I always encourage people, try to understand your partner, try to get them Yeah. And that's a first place. And, and finding some new solutions mm-hmm

Willow: . And that's, that's one of the first things we like our, our couples to, to understand about each other is their core values. Like what do they really, really value? What are their top two core values in life? And, and why are those their values? And then what are yours and how do those values match, and how do they not match, you know? Mm-hmm . For example, my ex and I, you know, one of his top core values was I think, um, fairness, fairness, fairness. Mm-hmm . And I don't give a about fairness, , you know, . So it just, it wasn't like it didn't synergize. Yeah. Well, you know, and, and I think Leah and I both like, are some of our very top core values are understanding, which we've just been speaking about and love coming back to love. And so, um, you know, so, uh, we're a match to, to bring this, this into the world together. Mm-hmm .

Rahi: Absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, wow. For a moment, I went, I went to you and your ex and, and trying to figure out how that would work. If one person it values fairness and the other one doesn't give a about it. Um, but yeah, maybe Will

Willow: Willow would just, maybe not that I don't give a about it, , but it was just, it was such, it was, um, what the other one was, um, for him was, um, like getting back in a timely manner. Like, uh, felt like an honoring to him if like, he said something and then you replied within a, you know, certain timeframe and he would get really anxious, like if people wouldn't reply. I can't think of the words that he used for it, but yeah, those two things. And, and I'm just a lot more laid back and like, yeah, life isn't fair. Like the cookie crumbles the way it crumbles and, you know, just like, that's sort of what I grew up hearing. So, um, so it was just, um,

Leah: But share, share how you leveraged Willow when you understood that fairness, for example, was an important value for him. How did you leverage that to be a better partner to him?

Willow: Yeah. I would, I would just keep that in mind, you know, and so I would like try to create fairness within the relationship. Mm-hmm. And, and ask him like, what does this feel like an equal exchange? You know, like, does this feel fair to you? Does this, you know, use the word more. And even that within communication with couples is like, once you understand what someone's core value is, you can start using language with those words in, in the, um, communications with them. And they're gonna feel so much more seen and so much more heard. Oh my God. She said fairness four times in a sentence, so Wow. She gets me , you know? Yeah.

Rahi: Mm-hmm . Totally. Totally. Well, I love that we're, um, talking about like, really kind of the, the basic foundations of relational intimacy, right? Understanding Leia as, as you pointed out. Like, you know, what is our shared intention in, in this dynamic, in this relationship? And what you pointed out Willow, like what are, if we can understand each other's childhood experiences and how our nervous systems and defensive responses came to be, we can be an ally with each other. Right. So I wanna move on to, um, asking like, how does this show up in, in sexuality and in the bedroom? And I wanted to ask like, what are, what are some of the most common misunderstandings that you see within couples, right. Um, that they come to you wanting to resolve? Like, I think, I think one of you shared, uh, about misaligned, um, you know, desire levels or Yeah. Disparity

Willow: And desire. Yeah. Disparity.

Rahi: Yeah. And, and, you know, in concert with that, I, I wanna ask like, if you had a mega horn to dispel some of the most biggest misunderstandings around sexuality, what would that be? Hmm. So it's kind of a two part question. What are the most common, uh, like misunderstandings that clients come to you with wanting to resolve? And what are some of the most misunder, common misunderstandings you see in the realm of sexuality that people, if they just learned this so much, would be resolved? Mm-hmm

Leah: . Well, I could start off by saying what a lot of people don't know is that women have as much erectile tissue inch for inch and ounce for ounces men mm-hmm . So when you think about an aroused penis, now imagine that women have them too. Ours is just organized differently. Mm-hmm . And, and I think when women understand, like, and men, like we are the same bodies. We have the same anatomy. We're just organized differently, including our desire levels. We have the same desire, but our desire is organized differently. And when we can kind of come from that place, what happens is the person who feels less than, they feel inadequate, they feel broken, they can never get their partner everything that they want. You know, it's like they always feel like they're not measuring up mm-hmm . When they start to realize, wait a minute, I'm not actually, I'm just organized differently.

Leah: I have to discover. And so does my partner have to discover that there's a pathway in mm-hmm . Let's go exploring. Let's treat this as an adventure. Mm-hmm . We don't have to make each other wrong. We one isn't better than the other. It's just, uh, it's just having permission to unlock some new keys. And that requires some learning. Mm-hmm . We're not born knowing all this stuff. We actually have to invest our time and our resources and our money and conversations into educating ourselves on how to be a great lover. Mm-hmm . We're not given that manual. And so if we can start to take a look at the art of love, that it's an art form that we can be empowered to pursue. I mean, most people in the west have enough resources. They're not struggling with a roof over their head. Mm-hmm . Most people, not all people have enough to eat.

Leah: They've got clothes on their back, they're employed most, not all mm-hmm . Um, that gives us a lot of privilege to actually pursue a little bit of art in our life. And what greater art is anything but the art of love, it enriches us on every single level. And so I think that's sort of a beginning framework, and then you can take a look at all different factors because there's so many different factors that causes us to have a diminished sense of desire. Mm-hmm. And a feeling of sexual aliveness in our system. And there's so many interventions that can lead someone to success, whether that's taking a look at your nutrition, taking a look at your hormone levels, which is, uh, uh, definitely in the realm of Willow's expertise. Mm-hmm . If it's taking a look at your trauma and overcoming stagnation in your system because of stuck emotional energy that you can start to alleviate for if it's simply understanding erectile tissue and figuring out how does arousal work in my system, or for me, which by the way, here I am someone almost 25 years in the sex industry, and I'm still reawakening parts of my desire that I had no idea were there.

Leah: Mm-hmm . So it's like you always stay a seeker, keep learning, keep uncovering your erotic mind. Mm-hmm . You know, like pursue living a turned on life. And by the way, enjoy it changing, because it does change what turned you on in your twenties is probably gonna be different than what turns you on in your fifties. Mm-hmm .

Willow: Mm-hmm . Hopefully. Um, yeah. Hopefully. Exactly. Yeah. So I would say, you know, that one of the biggest issues that couples do come with is that disparity. And it, it is often the, the woman who's like, I just don't really wanna have sex, you know? Mm-hmm. And the man's like, ah, she never wants to have sex. And the man feels like, you know, he's always having to initiate and she feels like she has to do it just to keep him happy. I mean, that's a very common one. Mm-hmm. Very common one. There, there are definitely other things times when the woman comes in and she's like, he is not giving it to me. You know? Mm-hmm . And so it can definitely go both ways, but that's probably one of the most common, um, things that we see. And yeah, it's, um, it, it, it is about, it is about education.

Willow: Everything that Leah just said, you know, like teaching women, like, 'cause a lot of times a woman might not be interested because she doesn't know her own body, she doesn't know how her erectile tissues flood and open and neither does her partner. And it always hurts, and it doesn't feel that good. And she's faking orgasms, you know, and, you know, and she might be in perimenopause and her, you know, estradiol and testosterone are low, and so she is just really not, she isn't, she'd rather just read a book and drink some tea, you know, God bless her, her heart and her soul, but if we can get her diet cleaned up, if we can get her herbs on point, you know, if we can maybe get a little bioidenticals in her if she needs them, depending on where she's at in her journey, and then teach her about her body and have her start exploring herself in new ways that she never has before.

Willow: And this requires getting over shame. It requires getting over guilt. It requires breaking through a lot of big constructs that are stuck in the soma mm-hmm . Circling back to the sacred spot, you know, how do we clear that shame and that drama? We go up in there and we do sacred spot. I'm actually putting together a, um, a training for women's pelvic floor release therapy, and I would just love for men to take the training. You know, I would love for men to know how to therapeutically go into a woman's v JJ and actually clear out trauma and help her somatically unravel the things that are in there that she doesn't even know are in there, you know? Right. And so it's, um, it's a huge world of untapped possibilities between couples and it, and, and it does require energy and time, and so that's mm-hmm .

Willow: Those are things that people feel that they don't have enough of is energy, time, and money mm-hmm . And so, um, it does require those things and mm-hmm . I don't, I don't know what to say about that. You either have to decide that it's a priority or just just let it go. That's what it comes down to, is prioritizing. I mean, we all know rahi, you know, from being on this path as well. Like what happens when you start prioritizing learning how to move sexual energy through your body in a different way. It doesn't have to take a long time. In fact, I've studied every healing modality under the sun, and the sexual healing is the, is the fast track. Mm-hmm . It's the fastest way to healing. And so, you know, I think that, that sometimes when people are like, oh, I don't wanna open the can of worms.

Willow: I don't wanna invest, I don't wanna spend the time, they, it's gonna take a long time, and it really doesn't have to take a long time to break through the shame, the trauma, the guilt to get to the pleasure. And then, you know, then the layers unfold from there. You know, you'll have little pockets of shame and guilt come through again. Yeah. But you'll, you'll break through them much quicker. Yeah. This lotus pedal flower just keeps unfurling. And as Leah pointed to, you know, 25 plus years in whatever, she's still discovering places inside of her psyche, places inside of her body that are igniting new, amazing and interesting levels of, of arousal and excitement. And I think that's, you know, that's what tantra is. Tan is an expansion and tra is a weaving. So it's a weaving of expansion into our bodies and our lives that, um, we all hold the possibility of.

Leah: Yeah. You know, Rahi, you mentioned like, what's a misconception? Um, one of the things I see all the time, especially in the seminar world, is can I can't practice tantra if I don't have a partner? Mm-hmm . That tantra, somehow you have to have a partner in order to start in, and it's just not true. There are so many incredible solo practices, don't wait. Yes. For the perfect partner to come into your life to get started on the, one of the richest experiences of your life. There's so much you can cultivate. And actually even couples who come, we still tell them, you need a solo practice. This is a cultivation practice. There are things you need to do on your own. Mm-hmm . It's like, it's like being a part of an orchestra. You don't just show up to play with the band, you have to practice your instrument Yes. In order to make this epic music. Yeah. So it's, it's not either or. It, it's something that every person, whether you're coupled or not, needs to go into that self-inquiry.

Rahi: Yeah. I, I so agree. I mean, it's like, I mean, it's ironic because I think a lot of people who are not partnered or coupled, you know, if they did engage in these practices, their channels would open up and magnetize, you know, exactly what it is they're wanting. Totally. You know, and, and going back to your experience of, of the three waves of the sacred spot massage, you know, engaging in yourself and, and, and being a part of that reclamation process for yourself, I think's such an integral and important vital part of one sex sexual reclamation journey. Totally. Um, and I to, I totally concur with both of you. I mean, what we've seen in the client's evolution and consciousness, in their capacity to receive, in their self-awareness, I mean, sexuality is such kind of a direct portal or gateway. It's the root, like

Willow: It's the root , it's the root of where we all come from .

Rahi: Absolutely.

Leah: Absolutely. Yeah. You know, one of the things I do when I'm first coaching a new coaching client is I have them fill out this form and I, I have them explore, uh, maybe 10 or 12 different sectors of their life. You know, everything from, um, their lifestyle with food and exercise to their financial, um, health to their playtime. Like what, you know, having fun, being playful to family time, all these different sectors of their life. And I do that so that we can measure where they are when they first came in. Mm-hmm . Even though our focus is gonna be on sexuality and intimacy. Yes. When they start to make some changes mm-hmm . And do some work around their intimate sexual life, we start to see when they take the test again. Yeah. How, how it actually affects these other sectors in life. These non-sexual areas in our life are greatly benefited by us doing the work in our sexual life. They do bleed over, they have a relationship to the whole part of our system, not just this one area.

Rahi: It's like life force, life force, right? Yes.

Willow: Exactly.

Rahi: When you expand and feel safe, expanding your vessel for receiving life force mm-hmm . You start to get promotions at work. Yes.

Leah: Personal life, you lose weight. It's like, what is happening?

Rahi: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it really, it's the root willow. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's our core. It's our, it's our core. It's what cre, you know? Yes. I couldn't agree with you more. Okay. So, um, I understand that there's an opportunity coming up, uh, that you're hosting something in Greece for I think women to really embody and come into this, this, you know, take ownership of their pelvis and their sexual energy and life force. Could you share a little bit about that?

Willow: Yeah, yeah. We're really excited. We're doing a pilgrimage to Crete in Greece, and we are going to be helping women really awaken the goddess within. So we'll be going to ancient temples, doing Qigong and healing work. We'll be doing sacred spot work. We'll be doing, um, all kinds of opening of the different meridians in the body that hold lots of powerful sexual energy. Um, and we're just, just really excited for this. It's gonna be life changing for the women who come. It's gonna be life changing for us. So that's one of the things that I think we really bring as facilitators, is we are right there with our, our students, you know, going through the journey with them mm-hmm .

Rahi: Oh, that's so, it's so enriching and Yeah.

Leah: Yeah. We're really, you know, like I said earlier, it's, it's an opportunity to go and to be witnessed. And so I, I often liken it to we're giving birth to ourselves mm-hmm . And the other women that are joining us are wifeing us as we give birth to more of our wholeness, to more of our radiance mm-hmm . To more of our turn on. And when I say turn on, it's not just being turned on in our sex, it's really about what does it mean to live a turn on life, turn on life, on life. Mm-hmm . I wanna walk outside and be turned on. Like, I'm looking outside this window right now. I'm in Hawaii and it's so lush, you know, and I can feel that lushness represented out there, and I can feel it in my skin. And when you eat, you wanna be turned on when you walk, you wanna be turned on what can turn us on, what lights us up. And so it's so beautiful to be immersed in a community of people who are learning what that means for them and, and then turning each other on, you know? Yeah. When you've got peer people who are mirroring that back to you, you don't, you walk away being changed, you know, you, you're gonna come to Greece one way and you're gonna leave a whole new other way.

Rahi: Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's something really magical about immersions, especially when you're lifted out of kind of your regular day-to-day environment, and then you're in this very, very specific and intentional container and engaging in the practices that you have all curated for this, for this experience. It's, it sounds like it's a once in a lifetime kind of life-changing experience you're, you're holding space for, and I love that you guys are, are, are in, like, you, you understand how you yourselves are being rebirthed, you know, by being witnessed and holding space for it as well.

Leah: Yeah.

Rahi: How do people find out about this retreat?

Willow: They can go to sex reimagine.com, or they can go to either one of our websites, dr willow brown.com or more love works.com. And, um, you'll see it there at the top of the, of the, uh, website

Leah: Homepage. Yeah.

Rahi: Exciting. So exciting. Okay. Before we let you guys go, um, there was one topic, uh, that there was, there was a, a, a topic that I know you guys, uh, are very passionate about mastering male sexual energy mm-hmm . And there are beautiful practices from both the Tantra and Daoism where it's the application of breath sounding and movement to move the energy or the microcosmic orbit. Um, what have you found to be the most effective practices as you support penis owners in? Choice?

Willow: Breath, . Yeah. Breath is really, breath is key.

Leah: A big player. Mm-hmm . Um, I think too, there are various pressure point techniques mm-hmm . That, um, men should, penis owners should learn to apply, find out which one is best for you. Mm-hmm . Your go-to favorite technique, they're short techniques. They are, they don't involve a lot of things. You don't need to buy products in order to do these techniques. Right. It's really, really simple. And they're so much success in becoming, um, more competent in, in knowing that your sexual energy doesn't run you, you run it. And when you feel like you've got choice and control, you're able to relax in the sexual experience. And, um, it's so beautiful to watch somebody start to learn that, learn how to have more mastery with their system. Yes. Uh, their confidence grows, um, and, and what they attract in the world is really, really beautiful. It's one of my favorite topics is helping men really understand how to play with their sexual energy more masterfully. And that also means learning how to amplify their arousal in different ways. Absolutely. You know, understanding their arousal scale, understanding when you wanna do a technique so that you cool things down, even if the technique is simply slowing down your breath and opening your eyes. Mm-hmm. They're pretty simple things. Mm-hmm. That can help you calibrate where you are. So you can last as long as you want,

Rahi: And you end up playing your body as if it's this you, you know, like classical instrument.

Willow: Instrument. Yeah. Yeah.

Leah: Yeah. And when you're less worried about your body's functioning, you're really able to attune to your partner's body mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . And then that gives you a whole nother way of being present mm-hmm . Because you're less anxious, um, over your own system. Mm.

Willow: Yes. That's such a good point. I think that's one of the biggest things that kind of gets in the way for men is they're worried about their performance and, and is their partner in pleasure and I better do it harder and faster and quicker. And so she's in more pleasure. And, you know, it's there, there's a lack of attunement. There's an epidemic of lack of attunement going on . So, um, it's, it's really such a pleasure to teach a man what attunement looks like. 'cause it's kind of hard to, to describe, but if you can show him what it feels like, he, he can get it really quickly and he can start to attune to his partner and in a different way.

Rahi: Beautiful. Beautiful. So, um, I wanna say to our listeners, Leia and Willow, they offer all listeners a free set of training videos to explore, uh, one of three topics, either overcoming sexual obstacles, deepening partner intimacy, or activating turn on an orgasm at sex reimagined.com/adventure, all of their sites. More love works.com, which houses lay tv. It's the incredible library of free videos on all topics regarding sexuality. And dr willow brown.com, where she has blogs and incredible freebies, unconscious uncoupling, and how to pleasure like a pro . All of those website links will be in the show notes. Um, Leia Willow, thank you guys for being such I important educators and facilitators and space holders for, you know, this is work of the soul, this is work of consciousness. This is work that really changes people's lives, and it's such a pleasure to have you guys on the podcast. Thank you for, thank you for, for being who you are and, and shining your light, uh,

Willow: So much. Thank you much for having us. Yeah. So fun. Such a pleasure, Rahi, thank you too for doing what you're doing in the world.

Rahi: How is today's interview landing in your body right now? Can you imagine what a transcendent experience it would be to receive sacred spot massage from a masculine space holder, a feminine space holder, and from yourself? Can you imagine how it would be to amplify your sexual energy to release what may be in the way of love throughout your body, and to nourish and tone your glands and organs for greater vitality and aliveness through Tantra and Daoism links to sex reimagine.com. More love works.com and dr willow brown.com and their free training videos are in the show notes. Until next time, take good care.

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