Speaker 1: I am very, very excited to invite court Vox, uh, to the podcast today. Court is someone who's local here in la. He's someone I've heard about, I've known about for years. Um, we finally met, uh, at a workshop, um, around breast health recently, and then we had breakfast and it was like, it was so fun because we were like finishing each other's, other, other's thoughts and sentences. So I'm really thrilled to have him on The podcast Court is a certified sex and intimacy coach and sacred, intimate based here in Los Angeles. He also works as a sexual surrogate. He is the founder of Body Box, which is a very, very dynamic offering. Uh, it offers very tailored, designed one-on-one multi-day coaching. Uh, body box also offers, workshops, retreats in really exquisite locations, uh, all over the world. And he holds space for an online community to support global erotic explorers. Um, I wanted to say that court helps clients explore all types of intimacy through a somatic lens, practicing sharing through body-based exercises and experiences that involve breath movements, sound, touch, and choice exercises that have been designed to tap into your somatic, knowing the wisdom of your own body, and connect you to your rational thinking brain as well as your spirit. Kur, thanks so much for being on the podcast today.

Speaker 2: That was such a great introduction. Thank you so much. I, the feeling is mutual. I, I think I told you when we were together, , that I have had this feeling of you, of just feeling you're such a superstar, that I felt a little nervous to approach you. And when I met you, I was like, this is the sweetest man ever . And so I, I just feel so grateful to know you in this way, um, and grateful for your generosity and, and meeting up. And I just, I feel the same way. It felt like short shorthand, just like showing up with an old friend . Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah. It's been so fun and so fascinating. So like Yeah. You know, just getting to know you and, and getting to know your history and your offerings. Um, so, you know, um, by the way, part of that involves, uh, court being a front man for a rock band. So like, oh my

Speaker 2: God, you did your research. Yes. You did your research. Yeah. Was

Speaker 1: So fun. So court, I thought a good jumping off point would be, you know, it's really dynamic, these really highly tailored, designed one-on-one retreats that you create and hold space for, for your clients, these multi-day, um, retreats that, that, that are designed for erotic empowerment and somatic. See, can you give us an idea of what clients experience over several days? 'cause I'm sure there's a really wide range depending on what their history is. And then like, if you can give us a sense of like, what were the pivotal experiences in your sexual awakening or empowerment that led you to understanding like, how these spaces need to be held?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Ooh, those are big questions. Well, first of all, the, the immersions are really tailored to each person individually, but I think, um, you know, being an immersed in, in a space over a period of time when you're out of your home, you're out of your day-to-day element. Um, it does allow you to sink into a curriculum, um, in a different way than if you're doing it over, like, I'm coming for an hour, you know, once a month for 12 months kind of thing. Yeah. It's sort of like taking the lightning path in Tantra. . Yeah. It's like, you're like, we're really going in. Um, I do think it, it, it offers people an opportunity to really explore, um, their voice and their erotic blueprints and signatures of really understanding like who they are as an erotic person, um, what their desires are, being able to ask for them, starting to really understand like what's available in the erotic realms.

Speaker 2: Um, uh, so many people just don't know what they don't know. And so when there's sort of like this buffet of possibility there then becomes the question of what's keeping you from trying, what's keeping you from eating , right? Mm-hmm . And so you might, um, not be ready to try everything, but, um, what you do try, you get, get a chance to go. I like that. I don't like that. I want more of that. I'm open to trying that again. And I, I do think it's a really like, uh, a huge, um, bulk of learning for people. I don't think it's the end. I think it's like a, a huge start. It's like, um, having a big gust of wind at your back when you're starting your raise Yeah. Of like, this is, there's a big journey ahead and, and you're getting a head start kind of thing.

Speaker 2: Um, I have a lot of clients that do the three day immersions, or some come for five days, and then it'll be a year until I see them again. And they'll come to a workshop, they'll come to a retreat, they'll do a half day or a full day, sort of like a, I need a just a little pick me up or a reminder. But the, I do find that it is such a, um, a rich experience that people are able to take it into their lives and, and, you know, do what they want and, and take it into different avenues of their erotic expression. Um, when I say erotic expression, I don't just mean sexuality. I mean, I've had clients, um, shift careers. I've had clients shift relationships. I've had clients become painters and writers and, um, artists and not always like, for professional reasons, but for just the feeling of aliveness, right.

Speaker 2: Um, become dancers and take up acting. And it was sort of like, that was, you know, I can't take full credit for that. It was sort of like already something that was in their body. And this was sort of like, I'm just gonna just gently push you over the edge of like, yeah, these are things that you're never gonna get to do again. When if, if not now when is the time? Wow. I mean, and I, yeah, that's an important question I think to ask everybody is like, if you were to die tomorrow Yeah. Like, did you get to do all the things you wanted to do? Did you live a really full life? Um, so if not now, when mm-hmm .

Speaker 1: You know, what you're sharing right now, the, I'll let all these wonderful examples, uh, are an indication of how our, like turning on the erotic energy in someone's body mm-hmm. Is really like unleashing their life force for creativity and aliveness.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think what I, what I've come to understand is that, you know, sometimes, like just being in, um, space with, um, myself or somebody like you, it is a, a little bit of a fire starter because there is an imprint of what it's feels like and what it looks like and how it walks and how it talks. And, um, the idea of embodied leadership is really a concept that I've, um, stuck to, which is, it's not so much what I'm teaching, but how I'm teaching it. There's a lot of teachers out there that are really great, and I think, you know, when people arrive at my door and they arrive at your door or anybody else's, there's a resonance in the person, the teacher themselves. Um, and the curriculum, the curriculum is the curriculum and how it is disseminated, how it is embodied in myself and how that translates into the experiences that I have with other people is actually the gold.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. That's a really, really beautiful point. It's the resonance and, um, yeah. So many things that you're speaking to, um, are really important, I think, for listeners to take note of. Like, you know, you started off by saying, you know, rather than just meeting with someone an hour a week at a time, this is really, you know, full immersion where mm-hmm . Because it takes a certain amount of time for kind of the mind to kind of like, kind of let go of it's kind of neural pattern, it's used, you know, it's, it's familiar neural patterns and, and, and move into a space of expansion and newness mm-hmm . And this ex, you know, this immersion of three days or five days, especially when you're working with erotic energy and moving kind of opening doors that have wanted to be open, but but haven't been, haven't given, given the permission or, or the know-how of how to open them and feel that embodied energy. Mm-hmm . You know, that's, I think that's when real change can happen.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think, you know, when we talk about the erotic, I think people think, um, they think about these really big, uh, sexual experiences, but I, I can name times when I've had experiences with clients where I'm just holding their hand and, and because of the context of everything we've done, and maybe like a, uh, a narrative they've had around intimacy and being seen in public, right. With that, just the hand is, is such a profound like, experience. And, and I know that sounds like so silly, but I've had many moments where I'm just like, there's been a contact of a pinky and I, and I think to myself, wow, this person is actually trusting me now, and it's just a slight, like, they've come to me and put their hand on my pinky for contact, for connection or walking to get coffee and, and holding a client's hand because that was never allowed, or it was never permissioned, you know, especially being gay and, and walking in specific cities and cultures in the world where that's not allowed or permissioned.

Speaker 2: And then coming to a space of like, I actually feel grief in my body that it's taken me so long to have this and, and that is intimacy and eroticism that has nothing to do with penetration or . Right. And, and we, we take those moments, those small moments for granted sometimes mm-hmm . And so I just wanna name that it's not always this huge experience that quote is quote unquote, like as Audra Lorde would call it, the pornographic. Right. It's like, sometimes it's these like minute moments that no one would ever be able to see, but they're so felt deeply in the body. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah. That's really, um, beautiful and profound. I mean, to consider a longing mm-hmm . To hold someone's hand in public that has been buried or shamed or, uh, denied, you know, for decades. And having the opportunity to realize that in a really celebrated way. I mean, like, I feel emotion coming up in me just like Yeah. You know, recognizing the profoundness of that freedom.

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm . I mean, I had a, um, I, I met up with a, a lover that I had had in my twenties recently, and we hadn't really sat down in a long time. It'd been maybe 15 years, um, maybe 20 since we had last, like, really connected. And he said, you know, you are, I really hold you in high regard because you were the first person that I ever felt beautiful around.

Speaker 1: Oh, wow.

Speaker 2: And I said, wow, that's incredible. Like, when did that happen for you? And he said, when you held my hand in public, you were the first person to acknowledge publicly that I was with you and you were with me. And so these like things that, uh, I think sometimes we take for granted, and that I had taken for granted. Mm-hmm . Was such a huge experience for him in like owning his, his , his beauty and, and his personal power.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that kind of segues into the second part of my question court, which was, you know, like, I feel like it takes, um, a lot of attunement and presence to be able to hold that quality of space for someone's, you know, for someone to feel safe enough to really, um, lean into their edges for this multi-day, you know, tailored designed experience. And I, I, I, I mean, I, I know you and I feel, you know, I, I know how special you are and how safe and sensitive you are, but I, I wanted to ask like, what do you feel like your, your most, um, like pivotal experiences were in your life that have informed you of how to hold such an exquisite space for others, and in a sexual way, in, in a sexual realm?

Speaker 2: I wanna first like, like acknowledge the word safe because I think Um huh. Such a loaded word. And for me, it feels overused in, in the context of the work that we do. And, you know, emotional and physical spaces in general. What I would say is safe about me is the connection I have to my nervous system. Yeah.

Speaker 2: My nervous system, uh, relationship is I am, I know how to regulate myself. And so when people are around me, there is a sense of calm, there is a sense of feeling of, of they can put down hyper vigilance. Hmm. The work itself is not safe. I, it's edgy. It's, it's edgy, it's brave to enter into this space. You are entering into places where there are wounds and triggers and potential pleasures that you never expected. And to, to be able to embrace the complexities of all that is so brave. Mm-hmm . And so I prefer, I prefer we're entering into brave space together. Yes. Yes. With someone who has a connection and healthy relationship to my nervous system. Yeah. Over this blanket statement of, I'm a safe space.

Speaker 1: Well, I think, I think that's really, um, on point. You know, like, it's almost like your relationship with your nervous system, your awareness of, uh, how grounded and present you need to be, you know, allows for, um, you know, like we're like tuning forks, you know, it allows another nervous system to feel, um, that groundedness in the space Yeah. And, and allows the space to, to, you know, to, to lean into that, into that edginess, you know, with, with the courage. Um,

Speaker 2: Will you ask your question again, because I, you Yeah. Well, you

Speaker 1: Know, um, I mean, I, I feel like the space you hold is, you know, is so unique. And I wondered, well, you know, I wonder what like pivotal experiences court went through during his sexual, um, you know, evolution that he feels like it really informed the, the quality of space that he holds for others.

Speaker 2: Well, I think it's twofold. I think, um, there's a level of, of attunement that I've always had since I was very young, just having to show up for my family, um, in very adult ways, um, as a protector, as a translator, as a mediator, um, that have really, you know, benefited me in my adult life. Um, and in my sexual life, I feel like, um, in my thirties was really when I started to come back to myself, because when I was younger, um, I was a very erotic child. So sexual child, , like, just really connected and curious about my body, about other people's bodies. Yeah. Um, you know, I, my first sexual experience was when I was four with another friend of mine who was four. And, you know, we just sort of like fondled each other. And, um, so I was very curious at an early age, and then I think there was a moment in time where I kind of shut off because I, I noticed that I was different from other people mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: And how it was not safe for me to be, uh, inhabiting my body in that way. Um, wow. And really when I came to UCLA and when I was 19 years old, um, I started, I came out, I started to kind of venture, but I, what was still challenging is that, that HIV and AIDS was still really, um, it was still top of mind mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . And it was still, there was hyper vigilance in my body around, um, death connected with sex and also stigmatization culturally and societally. And so I was very, um, protective and, and a little bit prudish mm-hmm . In my twenties. Mm-hmm . I also had two really long-term relationships. And sort of coming out of that in my thirties, Truvada had come on the scene, which is, you know, prep for people who don't know what prep it is, is it keeps you from contracting HIV.

Speaker 2: Um, and also, um, the apps, the dating apps and the, the kind of hookup apps had come online. And I remember having this thought of, you know, what court, if you're gonna like do this, it's now like, you're never gonna be as young. You're never gonna be as pretty. Right. You're never gonna be as horny. Yeah. And, and you've got the world is your oyster here. And like, I did it, I, I, when I say I did it, I did . Yeah. And sort of like coming to the end of my thirties, I started to use sex in the way that I do now, which is more as a, as a way of, um, understanding myself better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and having a lot of self-reflection and understanding how I relate to people and, um, you know, how I attach to people and how people attach to me.

Speaker 2: And I think to me, that that is like the essence of really good sex therapy is, you know, to, to be able to, um, have encounters mm-hmm . And then instead of just kind of being like, well, I did that, of kind of allowing yourself to like stew in the deliciousness of it and, and understand like, what was so good about that. Mm. Or like, what was challenging about that. Like, you know, there's a couple instances that were experience that I had, and they still kind of stumped me. Hmm. And they're humbling because I'm like, I don't know what happened there. Wow. Mm-hmm . And I can't say why, you know? And it's not that they were bad, it's just there was no, there was no there, there, mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . And for me, there's usually a, there, there. And so there's this sort of question of like, where, where was I mm-hmm .

Speaker 2: And where were they and how could we not meet? Um, you know, you, you talked about me as a performer. Um, and I actually think it's relevant in this case because, um, you know, sex isn't performative for me, and performance wasn't performative for me. I see. So when I, and this happens to me when I'm with clients still is, and it's similar to stepping out on the stage, you know, for, you know, 500 people or 25,000 people or whatever it was, of there was this moment of intense emotion and excitement and anxiety and nervousness and, um, adrenaline. Mm-hmm . And, and then I would step out and then I would sort of inhabit myself in a, in a way that felt like, uh, like what I would describe as a trance state mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . And I feel that way in erotic connection. I feel like I go into some form of altered state of consciousness, which feels very similar to the altered state of consciousness I had while I was performing mm-hmm . Um, which is sort of like not, uh, I wouldn't say it was like a, a, a channeling, but it was more like I had a different access to myself. Yeah. Um,

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: I have different access to myself in those spaces.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Which you kind of, I, I'm kind of wondering court as you're describing it, whether it kind of feels like you were in a zone of flow.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Right. Yep. So that's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. So whether it's on a stage in front of so many people, like once you inhabit yourself, as you said, you are really like in a zone and kind of a flow state. And that's analogous to when you are holding spaces for these erotic embodiment, uh, yeah. Uh, experiences.

Speaker 2: And, and, and why I think that's relevant is because as a performer, there's no, there's no, um, it's like when you step onto the stage, it's either you, you go into that, either I would go into that space or I would be eaten alive.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 2: And so I, I got really, um, trained into turning it on, like I know how to turn it on. Yeah. It's just like, here we go.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And here we

Speaker 2: Are. Yeah. Um, so my, my ramp up to that is, is very short. I see. I can just decide.

Speaker 1: Wow. Wow. That's super cool. And that's really fascinating. Um, I wanted to to ask you about your work with men and, and in groups of men.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So I, yeah. Is there a specific

Speaker 1: Question, ? Well, yeah. I mean, you know, like on your website there's a description of like the connect and sacred devotion, these, these events for men mm-hmm . And, um, when, I mean, I'm sure there are, like, you know, we talked over breakfast about like how when a group gets to a certain size, it becomes its own organism. Yeah. Right? And the kind of the, the healing energy like kind of ripples through the group as an organism. Uhhuh . But I wanted to ask you like, what you feel like the elements are that make these experiences that you hold for men. So like, it sounds like life changing for a lot of the men who attend.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I think I, I just wanna name that I'm still growing as a facilitator and as a space holder. And, um, what I really feel in this moment in time is that, you know, in the past I've thought to myself, you know, we're not gonna win everybody. And, you know, not everybody has to love this. And, you know, if you know one person thought this was, that's okay. And I, I'm actually in this mindset of like, I don't want to leave people behind anymore. And what I mean by that is, if somebody is having a, a, a hard time or their nervous system is dysregulated, that we actually don't put them out in the street with a, a, uh, an assistant to like work it out on their own so that the group doesn't have to be disrupted. Right. I'm feeling into this philosophy, which, you know, is more about actually you are a valued member of this field of energy and this tribe and as a group will hold until you're ready to move on.

Speaker 2: And I think, you know, having experienced that in containers that I've been an attendee in, what that signals to me and, and my nervous system is that I am valuable. And if that ever happens to me, that my tribe of people will actually stop and hold space for me and, and, and wait for me. And that feels so good. Mm-hmm . You know, and it's not the norm. . Yeah. So I, I'm, I'm, I'm leaning into that and, um, also leaning into not being perfect around it. Yeah, yeah. Um, which is a, a challenge for me too.

Speaker 1: . Yeah. Yeah. But that's, I mean, that's a really, uh, I mean, that, that shift, I think does, uh, kind of signal to every participant that you, that you too won't be left behind, that every part of you is welcome, and the group will hold for that.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And, and this piece around permission and celebration, you know, our sexuality is not permissioned and is not celebrated most of the time. And to be in a space where everybody's like cheering you on for your kinks and your desires and your body and your expression of it, and like, so cool.

Speaker 1: Yeah. It's, and it

Speaker 2: Feel, it, it feels so good. And, you know, my retreats are small. They range from like eight to 12 men. And, um, my workshops are a little bit larger in size, but usually on retreat, I, I've had like generations of men.

Speaker 1: Wow.

Speaker 2: And what's so cool is there was, there was a quote, and I, I think it's, and maybe an African proverb, but it's like, when we lose an elder, we lose a library.

Speaker 1: Yes.

Speaker 2: And I was like, wow, that's really so true. And I, you know, I'm looking at how I am complicit and erasing my elders mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . And trying to embrace, um, learning from all of the men in my containers and in my life who are from different generations mm-hmm . And different backgrounds and different countries, and speak different languages. And there's just such a, a, specifically with GBTQ men, there's such a rich diaspora that exists when our, within our community, they're like communities upon communities. And if we are entering from a place of celebration and curiosity, there's so much to gain from each other.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. You

Speaker 2: Know, and putting aside sometimes of, you know, I'm a 30-year-old man, and the man in front of me is 70 years old, or, you know, whatever, the kind of difference between us is like putting that si aside and like meeting that person in their erotic energy instead. And, and, you know, the agreements, one of the agreements that we have is showing up and considering your lineage of kindness and generosity, which is like, I can show up with you. I might not be having sex with you, but I can show up with you as a human and think to myself, how can I show up in a erotic way in, in my capacity that is physical also? That's a way that's, that's, um, gonna leave both of us, um, feeling generous and kind in a way that it extends far beyond beyond us. Mm-hmm .

Speaker 1: Mm-hmm . Like,

Speaker 2: When you go out into your life, our interaction has legs.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 2: And my interaction with you has legs.

Speaker 1: Yes.

Speaker 2: And, um, I think that is a big part of the success of my retreats.

Speaker 1: Wow. That is so beautiful. I mean, like, I had this image of like, you know, we're all just these gardens of soil and the erotic exchange that we have each other is the nourishment that nourishes like the soil that you take with you. Right. Exactly.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: So beautiful. So beautiful. So, you know, to kind of like, you know, I want our, I want I want the audience to get a sense of, uh, some of the themes that are explored in these groups mm-hmm . And, um, I was excited to see, you know, certain themes like fantasy through shadow mm-hmm . Power Surrender Intimacy group, erotic practice. And, you know, we touched on this a little bit before the interview, but fantasy through shadow fascinates me. Yeah. Um, specifically like, you know, like I saw the term on your website, alchemizing Shame, um, with me and my partner, we talk about how to eroticize something that was shameful and eroticizing it, and bringing, you know, making it so pleasurable and, and, uh, using that erotic energy can really turn it on its head. But, you know, as we discussed, if it's not done really, you know, in a, in a, in a mindful way, it can also kind of reaffirms, you know, someone's shadow or shame. Mm-hmm . Like, I'm wondering, um, what have you learned that makes a space like this most potent and what must one look out for and be sensitive to when inviting, like, living out one's dark fantasies?

Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I'll, I'll, I'll speak a little bit about, um, trauma. Yeah. Um, you know, because I think there are people that want to recreate their trauma as a form of like recreating a new imprint. And I, I, I actually would caution against that. Um, what I will say is that specifically people who have experienced childhood trauma, and there is a, a connection, there's a, an erotic and turnon connection to that experience, right. In sort of western psychological culture, there's a lot of discussions of, how do I get rid of this imprint? I don't want to think about it. I don't want it in my field of consciousness anymore. Let's work on rid myself of it. And, and the truth is, is the more you try to rid yourself of it, the more it's going to stay. And it's sort of like, you know, if we're able to embrace that actually, regardless of why it's a turn on for you that it is.

Speaker 2: Right. And, and if we're trying to recreate a traumatic scene, I wouldn't advise that. What I would, um, what has been interesting for me in working with things like this is to understand what the, uh, what the elements are that are exciting. So if you're, if you were to write, if you were to write down an erotic story for me, I would be able to go through that story and circle kind of key words. And the key words are really like, um, uh, it's sort of like they glow mm-hmm . And you can start to see where someone's turn on lives. And sometimes it's in power, sometimes it's in power exchange or submission or surrender. Sometimes it shows up in and wanting to be adored, wanting to be defiled or thought of as a toy or a, a non inanimate object. Right. You can kind of see what the themes are.

Speaker 2: And from that, taking those elements and creating a completely new story, a completely new narrative that is co-created between you and your client, or you and your partner, um, that is new. You're taking the elements that are juicy for you. Whether that's, I want to be adored, I want to be, um, used, I want to be, um, told what to do. I want to lose control. I want to be afraid. Mm-hmm . Right. But in this way, you are choosing this. Right. It is not something that is put on you. Right. And you are having a adult discussion mm-hmm . With somebody that you care about and checking in with them of how they feel right. About doing this. And so it is this kind of negotiation of figuring out where the meeting point is and what takes place is creating a new imprint that is rooted in your erotic themes

Speaker 1: With, with choice, with agency. Exactly.

Speaker 2: Yes.

Speaker 1: Right. And so, um, yeah, I think that's, I think that's really, I mean, it's, it's really significant. You know, like you said, you're creating a new imprint in the body of your experience, but now you're at choice around it, so inherently there's, uh, you know, you're, you're coming because it, it is from choice. There's an element of agency and a reclamation around that kind of situation.

Speaker 2: Exactly. And that, that's like, um, something that is a felt sense. Mm-hmm . Right. It's, it, it might look the same to an outside onlooker, but how you feel around, you know, I chose this, I actually created the scene. I also have a safe word and I can call it at any time. Right. I know I trust this partner mm-hmm . That they're gonna hold me in my, my best interest and in theirs mm-hmm . That they have a safe word that they can call. Right. Right. So there's, there's a lot of, um, discussion and communication. This is smart sex.

Speaker 1: Right, right. Right.

Speaker 2: Smart.

Speaker 1: Uh, yeah. Yeah. It's, it's smart. And, uh, and, and it's a, uh, it's, it's like you said, it's creating a new imprint around similar elements, but one where you are in charge and you do have agency.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And, and what I mean by smart sex is that there takes a, a level of awareness and a level of, um, uh, curiosity and digging and, and deep conversation and, and knowing yourself to be able to step into experiences like this. Yeah. You know, I, if you don't have an awareness of what those core erotic themes are, you need to take a couple steps back. Um, I've heard of people that just sort of like recreate traumatic experiences with people and they don't share it with the other partner. And that's actually out of, that is out of alignment and integrity with that other person. Sure. Like you are, um, entering into something that is not consensual with the other person, not knowing what your traumatic experiences or what you are, what you're doing. Mm-hmm . And I, I don't believe in that either. Mm.

Speaker 1: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Yeah. I, I hear, um, so what I'm hearing is, is, um, agency choice, safe words, uh, specifically defined container and consensuality.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Really big.

Speaker 1: Awesome. Awesome. Um, I wanted to ask you with your men on your men's retreats, 'cause I saw group erotic practice as one of the themes mm-hmm . Is that some, is that a practice that always occurs in your men's retreats?

Speaker 2: Yes. Um, you know, group erotic experience can look a lot of different ways. We might be having a transpersonal experience. We might be having something that's a little more personal, but in an, in an open space, we might be, um, dialoguing with each other in ways that are, you know, creating intimacy in more sensuality. Um, but anytime you have a group of people that are engaging in eroticism, um, whether that's witnessing or, um, being witnessed or, um, taking place, um, where multiple people are in erotic space, it's a group erotic experience. Totally. Um, and so that shows up in a lot of different ways and group erotic experience, tho those are always, um, present in my retreats and workshops.

Speaker 1: That's beautiful. I, I, I, I find that, um, you know, I think back to my sexological body worker training where it was like a daily morning practice during our in-person, you know, retreat mm-hmm . And it's, it's so beautiful and so powerful and so, you know, I mean, honestly, it's, it's a, it's a sacred experience that's usually not shared, and so to share it is so, you know, amazing. And it's not like people are staring at each other, it's just you feel everyone's kind of celebration of their eroticism, you know, in a shared space, and it can be so powerful and healing.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, when I, to to piggyback on that of also to be able to, you know, and, and what you're talking about is like, um, mindful erotic practice or a masturbation practice, um, for people who don't know what mindful erotic practices, um, but to also kind of see other people with kind of soft eyes, soft, soft eyes, how they, how they practice. Yeah. It's like, oh, wow, I could be doing that. Right. Mm-hmm. I, I, I should get some sensation toys, or maybe I'll tie my legs up next time and see how that goes of, um, or maybe I'll go a little bit slower this time. Yeah. I really like, or maybe I'll get up and dance and move as part of my practice. Yeah. So I think, you know, being with other people and seeing how they express, you know, specifically in this, this particular, uh, exercise is really valuable.

Speaker 1: It is very valuable. You learn so much and, um, and it's, it's fun and it kind of breaks down the walls. I mean, it, you know, like, you, you experience that with a group for a number of days, and you really feel like, uh, there, there, there's nothing to hide from each other.

Speaker 2: Yeah. It's really vulnerable. ,

Speaker 1: It's

Speaker 2: Sure. Really intimate, you know, it's like, well, it's all out there, you know? It's like,

Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I did, I did also wanna mention, um, you know, it, I, so I know a lot of the one-on-one tailored designed, uh, specialized retreats you do are with men. The retreats we've dis discussed are with men, but you also work with women one-on-one. I do. Yeah. And, you know, with Back to the Body, um, at the risk of like, generalizing, you know, I did wanna ask you like, is your approach any different when you're working with women, either one-on-one or, uh, you know, whether it's Yeah. When you're working with women one-on-one.

Speaker 2: You know, I, I don't work with a ton of women one-on-one, um, outside of the Back to the Body container. I've just started to do that more recently. Um, I don't know that my approach is different. I think, um, you know, there's a, there's a long, uh, on-road process, so there's a, there's an intake meeting, there's an initial call, there's an intake call. So there's a lot of work that goes into, um, connecting with each other and, and me knowing who this person is and what their kind of intentions are and what they'd like to get out of the work before they even show up on day one. I see. And it's sort of like, we just, uh, we arrive on day one and we start, it's not like, well, tell me about yourselves. You know, it's like, we've done all that. Totally. You know, it's sort of like we got three days . Yeah.

Speaker 2: We're, we're doing the thing. And, you know, people have plenty opportunities to work with talk therapists, and I'm a proponent of that. And I am a not a talk therapist. I'm, I'm somebody that facilitates learning and growth and expansion through body-based exercises and, and experience. And so, you know, I think people would be pretty disappointed if they came and just sat on my couch and talked all day. . Totally. Totally. Um, yeah, I, I enjoy working with women as much as I love working with men. I think there are, you know, there are differences and I, I, I am a person that needs variety Yeah. In my life. And I, what I love is to be able to work with women and then to go work with men. I never get bored. Cool. Um, mm-hmm . It's like I, I'm always in the place of, uh, being stimulated in terms of, um, uh, being in really interesting containers too.

Speaker 1: I bet. I bet. Yeah. Um, yeah. Every client is such a unique soul and brings such a unique alchemy with your, your energy. So, yeah. Um, I can see that. I can totally see that. Umor, I wanted to, um, ask you about your, on the online community that you hold space for. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I noticed, I mean, we talked about it over breakfast, but then I went to, you know, your site body box.com and, and saw that it, it sounds like it's a, you know, you're drawing in kind of these global, like these erotic explorers from all over the world and creating a safe space for people to really kind of explore their unrealized or, or yet undiscovered sexual purpose or vision or experiences.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: I'd love to hear kind of what your intention was when you started it and how it's evolved and, and kind of who it's for.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So I, I've been really big on Instagram for the last, probably like 14 years. I was an early adopter of Instagram. Um, and my, at one point I had a really robust audience on Instagram, and I write weekly on Instagram. And because of the way that Instagram, um, values sex educators and sex itself, which is, they don't, yeah. I've been shadow banned many times. I've lost my account. Oh, I got it back Uhhuh because I knew somebody at Instagram. But, um, you know, it's been really hard for people to, to receive my, what I'm offering. Mm. And so I, you know, I did create a, an online course. It's, um, seven modules, and that's also for purchase in the community. Mm-hmm . Um, the community is more of like being able to, um, read my writing on a more, um, consistent basis and also interact with it.

Speaker 2: When I, when I think about community, I actually, I've created a space and, and even on retreats in a workshop, I've created the space, I set the agreements, I set the tone. The way that I lead is a, is a, an ear marker of how we behave and, and, um, what we do. Right. But I'm actually not the community. Like the community is the people that inhabit it and the connections that they have. And, you know, after people work with me privately and on retreat, it's sort of like, how do they stay connected and how do they stay within that space? And, you know, online is not in person and it's sort of like what we have to, and what I have to hold a group of men that is growing and that live all over the place.

Speaker 1: Exactly.

Speaker 2: And it's sort of the, the best I can do until I can have a really huge event where everybody is able to come. Sure. Um, which that would be so cool. Um, TBD maybe in, you know, five years when I've been at this for, you know, a little bit longer. Right, right, right. But, um, yeah, it felt, it felt, um, like something I wanted to create for a people that can't come work with me privately, Uhhuh , but want to be in sort of the, the juice of it all. Totally. And then for people who have worked with me and want to continue to, to stay in the community,

Speaker 1: That's great. That's really, really great. Um, 'cause you know, when people kind of graduate there, there needs to be a container for them to, you know, continue. Well, one, stay connected, but staying connected really encourages people to continue kind of going deeper.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's that, it's also that connection piece offers a way to practice some of the, the tools and the toys that you've learned. Yeah. Um, in sessions and, and in workshops and retreats, it's sort of like, you know, a comment I get is like, okay, I got all these, I I, I, I left, I drove into your car, car shop as a, as a Honda Miata. Mm-hmm . And I'm leaving as a Ferrari. Right. And I got nowhere to go. Right. And it's like, you know, so introducing, you know, these extraordinary humans who have now this toolbox and, and this toy box of assets and newfound desires and, and ways to express it to each other, to potentially, you know, play with or, or to even just share, to know that there's other people that exist out there that are, are open to this type of stuff is

Speaker 1: Important. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is important and it's encouraging and um, it's very affirming.

Speaker 2: Agreed. Like if we just affirm each other a little bit more, I think we totally a better place.

Speaker 1: Totally. Yeah. Court, I so affirm you.

Speaker 2: Oh, I love you.

Speaker 1: I think you're a rockstar dude.

Speaker 2: You too.

Speaker 1: You're just rocking it. I love, like, I think everything you're doing is really, really fantastic.

Speaker 2: I appreciate that coming from you. It's a really huge compliment, .

Speaker 1: Ah, well I'm glad we finally met up. You know, it's ironic because we met at like a, a, a woman's breast, you know, health, uh, uh, three day thing that our dear friend Pamela Samuelson was facilitating. And you and I were the only you know guys there. And, uh, it was like the perfect, it was kind of perfect that we met there,

Speaker 2: There. I thought I loved that. I love Pamela Samuelson. Me too. Me too. I loved that class. Mm-hmm . I love learning just like about the body, and it was like lymph lymph drainage massage and like scar tissue remediation, which you know, is like so opposite from what I do, and it's like such great knowledge to have

Speaker 1: Such great knowledge to have. Yeah, absolutely. Well, court, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us today. Thank you. Um, how can people find you, uh, on inst on, on all your social media or what's the best way for people to reach out to you?

Speaker 2: Yeah, so my website is the body, BODY vox, the body vox.com. And my socials are at the Body Vox and at Court Vox on Instagram and Facebook.

Speaker 1: Awesome. Awesome. Uh, Kur, thanks for being with us today and for sharing all of your insights. I really appreciate it. My

Speaker 2: Pleasure. Thanks for the great questions.