Rahi: Welcome to Organic Sexuality, where we explore the restoration of pleasure, the reclamation of sexual sovereignty, and the realization of our embodied sexual nature. An invitation to honor the pleasures of your body by embodying the pleasures of your nature. I'm your host, Rahi Chun. I'm a certified somatic sex educator, sexological bodyworker, and creator of somatic Sexual Wholeness. Today's podcast is unique in several ways. First and foremost, the guests are two lovers, partners, and best friends - myself with my beloved Ariel Szabo, She also happens to be an exquisite soul who dives deeply into the mysteries of relational intimacy and alchemy. And together we've created a body of work transmitted from our respective experiences as inquisitive sexual creatures and professional somatic sex educators, and sexological bodyworkers, exploring the principles and practices of extended lovemaking. Our work and ways to cultivate the experiences discussed in this interview can be found at Divine Union for lovers.com.

Rahi: Today is a very special day. We have a new format, um, at the Organic Sexuality Podcast today, and it's based on a question that we've been getting a lot about what is extended lovemaking. So, uh, I'm here with Ariel Szabo and we posted this graph on our social media. Mm-hmm . Two charts comparing goal oriented love making with meditative love making. Mm-hmm . And there were so many, there was such a response and, and questions as to, well, what is this? How do we get there? Like, you know, what, what's this experience like that we wanted to create a podcast just to answer these questions. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, just wanna, uh, introduce Ariel Zao. Um, uh, like myself, she is a certified Somatic sex educator, a sexological body worker, a psychedelic integrative therapist. Um, and so much more. She's very, um, immersed in the world of, um, plant medicines, working with indigenous, uh, wise maestros and maestros over the years. Um, and, um, I would say a, an astute observer, uh, practitioner and experiencer of what, what intimate relating is all about. Oh, yeah. Thank you. Yeah. . Um, so Ms. Szabo, extended lovemaking.

Ariel: Extended lovemaking,

Rahi: Yes. People are looking at these graphs and saying, how do we get, what is this actually, how would you define extended lovemaking for yourself? And then we can talk about our experiences. Yeah.

Ariel: So extended lovemaking is, uh, really like one extended periods of time mm-hmm. Lovemaking mm-hmm. With your beloved, and really like satiating in all the different states of arousal that are available mm-hmm. Um, for long periods of time. Mm. So like low states of arousal. Mm. Medium states of arousal and high states of arousal. Mm-hmm . Um, and just being really present with what is mm-hmm . Moment to moment mm-hmm. Sensations, emotions, desires. Mm-hmm .

Rahi: So what I'm hearing is a container that allows and accepts like all of the fullness of the experience without needing to get anywhere or have a result or a goal or, uh, you know, any kind of performance-based orientation. Right.

Ariel: So, shifting out of the performance based orientation, shifting out of orgasm focused orientation mm-hmm . And moving into a focus on connection.

Rahi: Oh. That just, I feel relief in my body just hearing that

Ariel: It's like focus on connection and orientation towards pleasure. Mm-hmm . And tending to everything else that arises mm-hmm . Within me, or my beloved

Rahi: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . And that everything that arises during that deep connection and those deep extended states of erotic connection. Um, it's really surprising what can come up

Ariel: . It really is, it's amazing. You never know. You

Rahi: Never know , you never know, but like, there's so much that it touches into whether it's from, you know, our inner children, like past sexual experiences mm-hmm. Like, it's almost like a container to metabolize what hasn't been integrated Yeah. In our cellular memory and our psyches.

Ariel: Yeah. And also a container that can bring us into these just like clouds of bliss where you feel more relaxed, aroused mm-hmm. Expanded, connected than you've ever felt before.

Rahi: Yeah. It's really amazing that the extended periods of arousal, like what it does to our nervous system and kind of our, um, body's psyche and opening it up to different portals. Yeah. But I wanna, I want to talk about like, what is actually necessary for this deep surrender into these deep, you know, these extended arousal states.

Ariel: Yeah.

Rahi: Because there, there, there needs to be such a container of safety and trust for this to even, you know, be, be contemplated it seems.

Ariel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And in creating that container of safety and trust. Right. There's like a lot of skills that both parties have to have mm-hmm . Or start to build Yeah. Right. Start to learn. It's never, it's never too late to learn these skills. No. Um, and you know, a lot of the skills we've actually brought in and called them the eight pillars of intimacy.

Rahi: Love it so much. The eight pillars of intimacy. . I mean, I love it because, you know, we, so Ariel and I just hosted a, a couples retreat recently, and we, you know, it's foundational, the eight pillars are so foundational Yeah. For any depth of relating intimately. And what we found was that, you know, throughout the three day retreat, we kept, couples kept referring back to these eight pillars no matter where they were. And we had couples, you know, starting out in their relationship and, and together for over a decade, just a wide range. And these eight pillars were kind of the keys in.

Ariel: Right. Right. So, slowing down,

Rahi: Slowing down,

Ariel: Pausing,

Rahi: Pausing.

Ariel: So then you can notice mm-hmm . And then attune

Rahi: Mm-hmm . Self attune. Yeah.

Ariel: And then accept

Rahi: What it is your experience is. Right. Uhhuh, ,

Ariel: Trust it.

Rahi: Trust your own body's wisdom about what it's communicating to you.

Ariel: Yeah. Value it enough. Right. To then take up space with your own experience and communicate whatever it is that you need to make any requests Yes. Make any shifts. Right. Adjustments.

Rahi: Right. Right. And one of our, um, retreat participants pointed out that the first seven are actually all like inner experiences. Right, right. Like attuning, accepting, notice, valuing, like they're all inner, and the, it's not until you really kind of harness that self intimacy and self attunement and self communication that you can then communicate what it is that you're experiencing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So these eight pillars of intimacy, you know, we spent, uh, I mean, we spent time from the very first circle to really lay these out because throughout the three days, you know, we eventually moved into a lot of one-way touch and genital mapping, so partners could get really, really familiar about the specific erogenous, um, arousal and pleasure patterns of each other's anatomy. But we, it kept going back to these eight pillars as that foundational base. Right,

Ariel: Right. And any time, any sort of like crunchiness mm-hmm . Comes in, you can just return to the

Rahi: Pillars. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And you know, I I, you know, like what we emphasize is that it really requires that that self attunement, that self intimacy, that self, um, like being one with oneself in order to meet the other person. Yeah. Right. And that's what really allows for the magic to happen.

Ariel: Right. Right. And then a, a another place that the pillars come in as kind of like a, actually a necessary piece of really being able to develop the body's capacity to sustain long periods. Arousal for extended love making is edging. Yes. And in order to edge, right, you need to slow down pause. You need to be able to attune to where your body is on the arousal scale. You need to be able to communicate with your partner where you are so you can work together slow things down.

Rahi: Totally. Totally. I mean, this is a great example of how the eight pillars, you know, begins with any form of intimate relating, but it's so critical in something, a practice like edging, right. Like, it's like edging, like the more attuned you are to the eight pillars of intimacy, the more successful your edging experiences are gonna be. Right.

Ariel: Right. And I think about both the physiological aspects of edging of just like right. Attuning to where you are on the a scale slowing, pausing down when you need to, but then also the psychological aspects like, um, you know, the attachments that we might have to having an orgasm and the different reasons why. And when you can really slow down enough to excavate why we have certain attachments, all the different things it brings up, we can start to untangle Yes. And then create new patterns together.

Rahi: Yes. I feel like what you just spoke to is such a critical piece to extended lovemaking. Yeah. You know, because it's, it's important for all of us to really examine and become familiar with the train tracks that are conditioned in our body's response Once erotic arousal kicks in, you know, it's so common for, you know, the body just to be used to going for that orgasm Right. Once the arousal kicks in, or if, if they feel the arousal in their partner kick in to, to facilitate or to, you know, like support their orgasm. Right. And what you're speaking to is like, you know, the attunement, the noticing, the, the valuing, the trusting. It's all supportive to deconstruct what's been unconscious in our bodies for years or decades Yeah. And keeping us from real deep satiation.

Ariel: Yeah. Yeah. I think it'd be cool to talk about the different benefits of not orgasm. Right? Oh, for sure. Right. Yeah. Because like when we speak about extended love making, we're not saying don't ever orgasm or orga orgasming is bad. Right. Right. Orgasms are beautiful, so great and wonderful. Yeah. However, if we are conditioned to have an orgasm every time that we make love, and it might happen rather quickly. Yeah. There's so much of a vast terrain that we're missing out on that's missing, totally missing not just emotionally, but also sensation and pleasure. Yeah. Wise

Rahi: Yeah. Sensation, pleasure wise. And then, you know, what we found in our extended love making is the depth of self-awareness that comes about in understanding our intimacy, our self intimacy, our intimacy, and our avoidance of intimacy patterns. Right, right. In these extended states. Right. Yeah. And, you know, it's important to note that, you know, like, you know, I see it, I see it a lot in my, in my clients. Like, people can go for orgasm in as a way to avoid feeling vulnerable Yeah. And feeling like deep intimacy. Yep. I mean, it's ironic, but like, you know, so many couples are in the habit of, okay, orgasm, okay, now I can get to the rest of the day's work, or deal with the kids or do the laundry or whatever mm-hmm . And, uh, kind of, you know, like a lot of men will start to feel vulnerable and then quickly because they're too afraid to feel that vulnerability. Yeah.

Ariel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then it's like, I feel like it almost feels like a bandaid to me. Mm-hmm . Like, there's this really deep level of connection that a lot of couples are both wanting. Yes. Um, and they're just not quite sure how to get there. And then it's like, if you both have an orgasm, there are chemicals that flood through you and you can like momentarily feel really good. Right. But there's like a depth of connection and authenticity mm-hmm . That's not coming through. Yeah. So there's never actually a level of satiation

Rahi: Occurring. Yes, yes. Satiation, it's so, so big. Um, yeah. It's almost like fast food sex. Yeah. I think, I feel like we've become a culture of fast food sex. And the irony is, is I am of the belief that as a human species, like, you know, sex is what created the entire human species. It's, it's, it's our primal urge. Um, and I feel like somewhere along the way, rather than being about connection and intimacy, sex became about performance. Mm-hmm . And goal mm-hmm . And, um, affirming one's ident sexual identity and ego mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Right. You know, and I'm sure porn culture has a huge role in this. And now there are entire generations weaned on porn culture thinking that's the norm. Yeah. You know, but what everyone's really wanting is deep connection and, and authentic intimacy.

Ariel: Yeah.

Rahi: And so, coming back to extended love making mm-hmm . Like, you know, we talked about the eight pillars of intimacy. I feel like, um, just such a huge part of allowing for that extended love making is really understanding the role your nervous system plays mm-hmm . Uh, within your body, but particularly when it comes to sexuality, vulnerability, and intimacy. And the more that I learn, you know, for example, about your nervous system. Yeah. You know, the more we can be allies of each other's nervous systems and really work together for those extended states of love making.

Ariel: Right.

Rahi: So big. It's so big. And I feel like it's a missing piece out there. You know, like one really understanding the depth to which the nervous system affects all of our sexual responsiveness mm-hmm . But also, you know, so many couples are getting triggered. Right. And they're taking a, they think it's about them. Right. And if we just understand each other's nervous system, uh, histories, we just realize, oh, that's from, you know, that's from childhood when this happened, or, you know, like young adulthood when this happened. Right. Rather than thinking, oh, God, I, I up.

Ariel: Right. And with that knowledge and then what that allows for us to really start to not take things personally, then we can, like you said, the allies with each other and actually repair in the

Rahi: Moment Yes. In the moment.

Ariel: So, you know, if I get triggered and I have some memory from my childhood come up, and then you don't take it personally, and then you just stay there in presence with me and perhaps even bring some pleasure to that part of me. Yes. Right.

Rahi: Yes.

Ariel: We can like do a complete rewrite Yes. In my body.

Rahi: Yes. I find that to be the most powerful, um, repair reconditioning, you know, like as it's happening in the moment, you know, now you have an ally that understands your nervous system, doesn't take it personally, is present with you mm-hmm . Right. And bringing love and pleasure to a past rupture that that was unpleasant. Yeah. You know, and you know, some, I'm such a big fan of somatic reconditioning, like when the body, when the body can experience something similar, a similar dynamic or a similar experience in the past, but with a new ending where it has its choice and voice and it, it feels supported and empowered mm-hmm . It creates a new story in the body about that experience. Yeah. That's really powerful. Yeah. Yeah. So speaking of reconditioning somatic patterns, something that we're both, I mean, something that's foundational in our training as somatic sex educators is the practices of one way touch Right. To recondition and re imprint. Right. And really repair a lot of ruptures that happened in the past, both somatically and relationally.

Ariel: Right. Right. Because the one way touch container gives the person receiving the touch, the opportunity to put all their focus on their own sensations, their own needs, desires. It kind of becomes like this mirror to bring everything to the surface. Yes. That some of which may have been subconscious. Um, and then again, with that focus all on you, you have the space to allow your body to guide you in what is needed for the repair, because your body knows Yes. You just have to learn to listen and to attune to it.

Rahi: Yes. And, and provide that spaciousness. Yeah. And one way touch containers really inherently offer that. Yeah. Right. Um, I, I find that like, clients always learn something new about their bodies. Yeah. You know, in one way touch containers, you know, whether it was like a part of their body that they didn't know felt good, or, you know, it's so powerful when a client can, you know, voice their No. Or voice their, you know, adjustment. Right. And have it be like addressed right away. Yeah. It's like a new kind of norm in the body that gets upgraded. Right.

Ariel: Yeah. And, you know, I feel like for, for couples who like really do wanna make some changes to the tracks that they've been on together Yes. One way touch containers are like a necessity. I agree. Because there's so much going on when you're in a two way exchange. Yes. It, for me, it feels almost impossible if you're really trying to make a big shift in a pattern. Totally. There's too much going on.

Rahi: There's so much going on. So

Ariel: You make the container smaller Yes. By shifting the focus onto one person at a time. Yes. Then you can each like, build up a new muscle, and then when you feel ready, you can practice bringing it all together in a larger container where there is more going on.

Rahi: Exactly. So this really comes to, I mean, again, we go back to the pillars. It's about slowing down. Yeah. It's about pausing, it's about noticing and attuning. Like, what does my body authentically want mm-hmm . Right. And so often when, you know, it's like from the time we date, we, you know, we, we sneak the boyfriend home or sneak the girlfriend home and we're going at it. Yeah. And like, you know, who knows what's going on. I mean, like thing, you know, hair's being pulled and things are being touched and squeezed, and there's just so much happening. Yeah. You know, but to slow the whole process down, we just, I mean, I've had so many couples just learn so much about their partner's body that they had no idea about. Yeah. And then they also learn like what they've been doing that their partner hasn't been that crazy about . Right. You know, for years or decades.

Ariel: Right. Because that is such a common thing Oh my God. For couples for like this thing Yes. That your partner does. Yes. That you've kind of been enduring. Right. But it's been happening. Well, not kind of like you have been

Rahi: Enduring Yeah, yeah. ,

Ariel: But instead of going on for so long, it almost becomes scarier and scarier to say

Rahi: Something. Totally. Totally. I mean, I have a client like married 30 years, and her husband does not realize that she does not like his touch. Yeah. I mean, how do you share that after 30 years? Yeah. But if they engaged in one way touch Yeah. You know, container, which he's, he's not a, you know, he's, he's not willing to do. Yeah. But if they did, yeah. Oh my God. He would just learn so much more about what she actually likes and then that would make him feel so much better about their love making. Right. And just bring so much intimacy to their relationship.

Ariel: Right. And it would make it so much easier for her to voice what she's wanting because there's a container set with the intention for her to do that. Exactly. Right. So it like creates these containers that we set up, they are what anchor us and create the safety Yes. And

Rahi: Trust. Yes. Yes. It's almost like permission giving to really, uh, only experience what the body's wanting. Yeah. Nothing else. Right. Yeah. Um, and you know what I loved about, I mean the, the, the couples retreats that we do, we, we, we have a a day dedicated to a process called genital mapping Yeah. Which is also a foundation of somatic sex education. And again, one way touch mm-hmm . With that container, with the eight pillars of slowing down, pausing and tuning all of that. Yeah. And I find that when cl when clients can advocate for the specific erogenous areas of their genitalia, they feel more empowered. Those erogenous areas get more lit up and turned on because it's being spoken for and the partner learns so much more about how to pleasure their beloved.

Ariel: Yeah.

Rahi: Yeah. I mean it's, you know, like this long, long term couple over a decade, they just learned so much about each other. Yeah. You know, not only about the genitalia, but, but you know, the erogenous body erogenous the entire erogenous body. Right. And,

Ariel: And what they each need Yes. For their erogenous body to fully come on to its capacity.

Rahi: Yes. Yes. Yeah. So I feel like this leads into, uh, how important it is for love making when we talk about extended love making Yeah. To be non genital focused. Right. You know, like, not to exclude the genitalia, obviously, but I feel like sex in our culture has, we've been conditioned to think sex is, you know, genital genital. Right. You know, and there's just an infinite way, an infinite range of ways to make love that that isn't penetrative or genital to genital. Right. Engagement. Yeah. And I feel like that's what this particular couple really, really, you know, learned. It's like, oh, instead of starting at the genitals, I can start, you know, by connecting heart to heart Right. And then engage the body. And, uh, it was like a real breakthrough for them.

Ariel: Right, right. So it's like, it's a, a rewriting of like what sex even is

Rahi: Exactly. Yeah. Of what sex even is. Yeah. So, you know, I had, um, I had a, a couple, I think they were like 78 and 82 in my three keys course, and they, they realized at the end of the course that what they really wanted was authentic connection and intimacy. Right. And they thought the way to get there was through sex. Right. So rewriting what sex actually is. Yeah. Right. Um, is I think necessary for all of us.

Ariel: Oh my God. So necessary . Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so expansive.

Rahi: Yes. Yeah. So expansive.

Ariel: And there's a couple other things coming in for me around slowing down. Yeah. Um, so one thing that I've experienced, and I also witnessed my clients experiencing is in the slowing down, my body actually becomes more and more sensitive. Mm-hmm . So I find that like I am able to start tuning into more subtle and subtle energies, and then the pleasure actually starts to expand more and more mm-hmm . And the more I slow down, I reach new heights of pleasure, which is so counterintuitive Totally. To like, the way we've really been conditioned. Yes. And the way most of us think about it, like, oh, I need more friction, I need more intensity. Right. I need it to be harder, but actually when things, now I can see that that usually makes my body go more numb. Mm-hmm . And that the softer and slower things are, my body opens more and more, and there's just more and more sensation.

Rahi: It's so beautiful. That's so beautiful. Um, yeah. It reminds me of, you know, I, I often share that it's a cosmic joke that like, I'm a penis owner, so I can say as a teenager, I used to to, to magazines in the family bathroom. Yeah. Just afraid that someone's gonna knock on the door. Right. And so we're, we're, we actually train our bodies to come quickly as fast as possible, to go fast as possible. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, and for some people to stress release and other people rely on vibrators for a quick release. And, and just to your point, like slowing it down, it can just like open these portals of sensation and, and like, I wanna say consciousness like terrains that when there's an alchemy of erotic energy being exchanged, it just like, it, it's so expansive. And, and I feel like it's almost like being on plant medicine.

Ariel: Yeah, it totally is. I mean, you can go into some serious altered states of consciousness and have visions come in. Right. If you tend to have like an open right. Vision field, I mean, all sorts of things. Right. It's wild. Yeah. It's super

Rahi: Fun. It's amazing. I mean, I feel like our, our course, you know, like came through these kind of portals of consciousness. Totally.

Ariel: It's Right. Downloads. Downloads. It's a transmission course.

Rahi: Absolutely. A transmission. Yeah. Yeah. And because like, you know, these portals were, were open through, through our alchemical divine union practice. Yeah. You know, it's, it just made sense that, oh, this is what wants to be shared with the world.

Ariel: Yeah. Yeah.

Rahi: Go ahead, .

Ariel: Well, there's another thing that came in from me around this idea of slowing down. Hmm. And I can imagine there might be some, like couples be like, I, like barely have enough desire going to even wanna have like, quick sex. Like, how could I ever have the desire to wanna do this? Right. But what I have found in the slowing down, and then also refraining from having an orgasm every single time that I have sex Right. Is that makes me wanna have more and more mm-hmm . Sex. Mm-hmm . . Yeah. 'cause there's like a, there's like a energy that's been building, building that then it's like, okay, I don't, you know, I don't release it all mm-hmm . I, I leave and then go throughout my day in this kind of like, low to medium state of arousal, and I'm just kind of like walking around life turned on. Totally. Which feels so delicious.

Rahi: So good.

Ariel: And then I just, I just, my body is like, oh, I can't wait to get back in there

Rahi: Again. Yes. Yes. Totally. Totally. I mean, this is what happens when, um, the yearning and the tumescence continues to build, you know, it's like the vibrational frequency of that erotic state can be sensed, you know? I mean, certainly by, by by the animal world. I know. By the human world as well. Yeah. And you do, I mean, I think this is what magnetism is, you know, people get, you know, really magnetic in that way. Yeah. Um, and you know, it's like, you know, we were interviewed by, by Claire recently, and she said she was like at a, at a stoplight. and some guy at a gas station across the street . Yeah. Just

Ariel: Like, right. And it was like

Rahi: Dark out. It was dark out. He just, like, his head whipped over and looked right at her, even though she was in a dark car and smiled or waved or something, you know, it's like that magnetic energy. And, um, oh, I just, I, I, I really just wanna explore that state of buzz.

Ariel: Yeah.

Rahi: You know, it's, it is so magnetic and it can, it can, it really evolves. I mean, I found that, you know, with us, it's like, you know, after making love for an extended period, uh, without, you know, going over into orgasm, like, you know, later that day or the next day when we return to it, it almost picks up, you know, where we left off, very left off. Yeah. And then it continues to expand. Right. You know, and then we, if we can pause and then the next morning or later that day, we can just kind of pick up and it, it just, it continues to like expand and evolve and, and it's just fascinating fun and feel so good. Yeah. So I wanna, I wanna point out, I mean, obviously listeners who are listening don't have the visuals of the graph mm-hmm . You know, that, that, that we created. But just so that they have a visual, it's like the goal oriented love making was, uh, well, you describe it 'cause you were really the one who put it together.

Ariel: Yeah. So the goal-oriented lovemaking, it's right. Like your arousal starts to peak, there's a plateau, and then it rises until orgasm. Right. And then there's, um, like just a drop Yeah. And kind of a recovery period.

Rahi: Sure, sure. There's like a, a, a sharp drop after the, the, the sharp ascension into orgasm.

Ariel: Yeah. And on average this may happen between like a three to 15 minute period. Yeah.

Rahi: Right. Yeah. So just since we're talking about time, you know, there's a study done in the US where the average woman, uh, the study showed that the average woman requires somewhere between 20 to 45 minutes of foreplay for their full erogenous capacity to be available. And the average lovemaking time in America is three to seven minutes. And so, you know, part of why we're such big fans and advocates of extended love making is to make sure the full capacity of both lovers

Ariel: Right.

Rahi: Get met. Right. And can like really explore the alchemical consciousness expansion that's available.

Ariel: Right. Right. 'cause there's just a big disparity between male and female bodies Yes. On kind of the arousal patterns. Yes. And then even between female, female bodies, male, male bodies. Absolutely. There can also still be huge disparities because of course, everyone's body is

Rahi: Different. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

Ariel: Yeah. So then this other graph, uh, that shows this like meditative love making, this extended love making arousal starts to peak and then you come into meditation Yeah. Stillness and presence Right from there. Um, the arousal might actually heighten Yes. Just from bringing more presence to it. Right. Um, and then you might come into some more stillness presence with it, and then it might drop a little mm-hmm . And then you restimulate and you kind of just, you're following these waves of pleasure. Yes. And continually, um, coming back into this presence stillness after you've built up a certain amount of erotic charge Yes. To integrate it into the body mm-hmm . Um, and also just to be really like with the moment Yes. And elongate the experience.

Rahi: Yes. And see this is again, where the eight pillars of intimacy come in. Right. Yeah. The slowing down. Yeah. The, I mean, we're talking about pausing when we're talking about, you know, uh, bringing the erotic embodiment into a place of stillness. Yeah. So the, so the, the, the body cells can actually absorb that energy Yeah. And expand through the body so it doesn't need to discharge into or orgasm.

Ariel: Right. And you could do this for an hour, you could do this for five hours. I mean, it's just Right. It's

Rahi: Endless. It's endless, you know, it's endless. And, and that's, you know, obviously the body, um, you know, the body's really malleable. It's very adaptive. And, and you know, like in our experiences, like, you know, it's amazing how, you know, like, like it's, it's just evolved, you know, like from the early part of our relationship where, you know, we would, we would enjoy extended love making during like an afternoon, but now it, like, it goes over a period of days or a period of weeks. Right. You know? Right. And it can continue, you know, it just continues to kind of teach us and almost show us the way.

Ariel: Yeah. Yeah. And then once you are really able to start dropping into these extended periods of arousal, uh, the reason we describe it as like an altered state of consciousness, because what begins to happen is boundaries kind of morph, kind of similar if, if you are someone who's worked with plant medicines and those types of altered states of consciousness, the boundaries between you and your partner can start to dissolve. Yes. The boundaries between you and the universe can start to dissolve and Right. That's that like, feeling of oneness. Yes.

Rahi: Yeah. Yeah. I find that like, you know, when we're, when we're deep in a neurotic state, there's almost like no identity. Right. You know, and then, and then I can, I mean, when there is an, when there is a, an awareness of that, I can, I can like support that by letting, it's almost like I can choose to let go of the identity. Right. And then drop into that, you know, alchemical erotic energy.

Ariel: Right. So, uh, egoless state Yeah. And really becoming just like energy forms

Rahi: Yeah, yeah. Energy forms that are, uh, you know, that, that, that are moving in concert, you know, in partnership, in harmony, uh, showing us like where it wants to go. Yeah.

Ariel: Yeah.

Rahi: You know, I feel like, like, you know, the way we created this course was to really listen for how it wanted to create through us. Yeah. And I feel like the, I'm just realizing now, the, I think the more we experience those extended lovemaking states where we can surrender and allow the energy to guide us in the lovemaking mm-hmm . I think that develops this practice to do that in life. Oh,

Ariel: Absolutely.

Rahi: Right. Yeah. Because it is this somatic re imprinting, and that is how our course came about . Yeah. Right. I mean, we were just listening to the downloads and it just like, I mean, it's funny, like the, sometimes we would just need to do more research, which was love making, extended love making Yeah. You know, for the, for the next, for the next, you know, exercise or the next, you know, like lesson to come through. Yeah. Yeah. It's really, really, um,

Ariel: Divine .

Rahi: Um, so yeah, for me, extended love making, it was all of what we shared. Yeah. Um, I, I really feel like it's, it's a, it's a portal for, for spiritual consciousness. Yeah. You know, it's like, I, I wonder if that state of surrendered, uh, energetic bliss is really kind of some part of our psyche remembering what it was like, you know, like in the womb of the mo mother mm-hmm . You know, or like when we were one with everything, you know, it's almost like a, a a way to return to that state, but, you know, with the maturity and consciousness that we have now mm-hmm

Ariel: .

Rahi: Yeah.

Ariel: Yeah. And I have found it to be such a beautiful practice in receiving. Mm. And then when I, when I do learn to do it here, I see it happening everywhere in the way that I'm able to just receive life.

Rahi: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Isn't that fascinating? It's like, I, I feel like the, the container of extended love making can really expand. Like, I mean, it does expand all areas of life, but it become, it can become such a teacher as to how to do that. Yeah. You know, and somatically like, our bodies are already kind of getting the downloads, you know, um, of, of those lessons, you know, and like incorporating it somatically so that in a regular life, it's just there. Yeah. Yeah.

Ariel: And start to make love to life.

Rahi: Exactly. Exactly. . Yeah. And, um, yeah, I also feel like it's such a synergy and alchemy that it, it supports like collaboration, supports creativity, supports intuition, just so many, you know, wonderful. Um, like opportunities in life

Ariel: Yeah.

Rahi: Yeah. To share mm-hmm . Yeah. Yeah. And, and so, you know, it, it again like encourages us to take our time to slow down to pause. Yeah. You know, it's like, you know, if you're wanting to experience communion, but your, your body's not quite there. You can just pause and enjoy so many other non penetrative love making p you know, engagements. And, you know, we really made a point to Epha, there's a whole module of that in our course, because I think people are so fixated on, oh, love making is just, you know, genitals to genitals or penis and vagina, and it's like, oh, I gotta take advantage of my erect penis because it's gonna go away. But there's so many other things. Yeah. You know, I mean, love making is love making and, and, and we really want to kind of deemphasize, uh, kind of what's glorified out there because there's just endless possibilities.

Ariel: Right, right. Particularly in hetero relationships. Yes.

Rahi: You know? Yes.

Ariel: 'cause there is so much focus on just penis inside vagina as like the end all be all

Rahi: . Yeah. Yeah. The beginning and the end. Yeah. And there's like so much, you know, that could be, you know, a meditative wonderful part, but just one of like a gazillion parts. Yeah.

Ariel: Yeah. There's just so much else available.

Rahi: Totally. Totally. Well, Ms. Szabo, I thank you for spending this time with me today. Oh,

Ariel: Well, thank you for having me.

Rahi: Well, anytime, , anytime. It's been such a, a joy and pleasure. And, um, I think we have a lot more research to do

Ariel: Next, endless, endless hours of research. Endless. Yes. Yes. Not enough time in the day, .

Rahi: No, no, no. And with that, we're gonna encourage all the listeners to really slow down. Mm-hmm . Pause when your body needs to pause. Yeah. Take time to notice like, what is your body wanting, desiring, needing mm-hmm. Moment to moment. Yeah. Yeah. And then

Ariel: Attuning.

Rahi: Attuning. Yes. Attuning to what, what is present and what is real for you. Yeah.

Ariel: And then accepting it.

Rahi: Mm-hmm . Just accepting, accepting it all. Accepting it all. And sometimes it may be challenging to accept what's actually happening, but the body deserves your faith and your trust and accepting what is Yeah.

Ariel: And then trusting what your body is telling you.

Rahi: Yes. That's a big thing. It's like really trusting your body, knowing that it knows Yeah.

Ariel: Yeah, yeah. And then valuing it.

Rahi: Valuing it. And this really speaks to honoring your body and it's inherent wisdom. Yeah.

Ariel: Mm-hmm

Rahi: . Mm-hmm . And then you, you actually have the inner kind of investigation and attunement and acceptance and love to share and communicate what your truth is. Yeah. With your beloved or your partner or whoever you're with. And that alone is gonna deepen and cultivate intimacy. Right.

Ariel: Right. All of this is actually the key to connection

Rahi: To intimacy. If you want true intimacy and cultivating, you know, really the satiation of your body's authentic desires, the eight pillars are pretty spectacular. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, well sign off here. Um, thanks for listening.

Rahi: How is today's episode landing in your body right now? Are there ways you can slow down, pause, notice, and invite a greater attunement with your body during love making? Are there practices you can bring into your lovemaking that invite a greater moment to moment pleasure, focus, rather than a goal or performative focus? When exploring pleasure with yourself or with your beloved links to Divine Union For lovers.com and registration for our free masterclass can be found in the show notes. Until next time, take good care.