Welcome to your Body. Remembers pleasure. I'm your host, Rahi Chun. This podcast is devoted to sexual embodiment, intimacy, and the body's innate capacity to heal, feel, and remember pleasure. If something here resonates with you, you're welcome to explore more writings and resources@rahichun.com. And now let's begin.

 

This is a special episode for me because I've known today's wonderful guests, Judith and Frank personally for 25 years before I became a somatic sex educator, and before they became the celebrated co-authors of the magical sex book. And so that's why they do that about men, women, and hormones. I so love that they're experiencing the best sexual intimacy, connection, and relationship of their lives well into their seventies and eighties.

As I wish for everyone. How do they continually explore and deepen their sexual intimacy, pleasure and connection in these prime years? I could not imagine a better way to launch her second season than with Judith and Frank. Additionally, I'd like to share a new online course I'm offering. The three keys to genital disarming for expanded pleasures.

How to bring safety within the nervous system, reclaim your body's authentic sovereignty and empower your sexual pleasure. Details can be found by clicking the link in the podcast description, or go to somatic sexual wholeness.my Kajabi. Dot com. And now without further ado, the wonderful Frank Uighurs and Judith Claire.

I am really honored and overjoyed today to be inviting two wonderful, embodied souls to the podcast who I've known for decades before I even came into the sexuality realm Frank and Judith. Frank is really a Renaissance man. He's a veteran having served in Vietnam where he flew F1 hundreds.

He's taught flying and aerobatics. He's raced sports and formula cars, skipper winning yacht races. But he's also been a devoted student having done deep dives into studies and practices involving sex. Love intimacy and relationships, and is licensed by the Relationship Coaching Institute. Frank believes that love and sex are a spiritual practice and that love relationships are the foundation of everything we do, which requires skill and practice.

He's been in the relationship of his dreams and is able to practice what he preaches with Judith. Which brings us to Judith, who is he does practice what he preaches. Yes. Yes, indeed. Indeed. I can attest to that. That's so refreshing in somebody who talks about it, yes, exactly. So Judith is a Renaissance woman.

A creative soul and artist. She's written lyrics for at least 10 recorded songs. She's written screenplays. She paints, she's performed on stage and she's also been doing personal career and relationship counseling and coaching for over 40 years, influenced by her deep dives into Eastern and western spiritual practices, exploring what is really authentic and true within our relationships with ourselves and with others.

Together. This team has co-authored two books, the Magical Sex Book, which we'll get into, and so that's why they do that about men, women, and hormones. I see the meeting of the two of you who I know were devoted students of sex and intimacy and relationships. Finally having met your match when you two came together almost 20 years ago, which is so cool.

I'm so glad that you're joining us today. Welcome. Oh, thanks. Thanks, Rahi. It's great to be here with you. And it's really a pleasure. I guess you all know Rahi, but I do know him for a long time. Yes. And it's been like he's always from the minute I met him looking for truth, looking for authenticity.

He's always open, he's always vulnerable. He's always curious. He was always like that. And so this is the culmination, at least of my time. I think we, we talked about knowing each other about 25 years exactly. And it's been, it's always a joy to connect with him. Always a joy every time. I remember one time it wasn't great being in s space.

I feel the same way about you, Judith, and Frank. I know you less well, but I so enjoyed connecting with you as well. Guys, I feel like a great jumping off point 'cause there's so many juicy topics covered in your book that I wanna get to. But I wanted to ask, what was it about meeting, relating and making love with each other that took your sexual and intimacy iq?

To the new and expansive levels that it did, because I know I, I knew both of you before you got together or around that time, and I know you were both, practiced in tantra and intimacy and relationships. What was it about meeting each other that made the difference for you? We both have, I think the same core values.

For me.

You can have physical ecstasy of course even with yourself. But the thing is that makes, everything really deeper for me and better for me is the connection of one soul to another. And we both had that core value of we wanted to commit. We wanted to find one being and be with one being.

Who is going to focus in terms of relationship, their attention on deepening the connection deepening how we relate to each other. Yes. And relating to each other. These are very simple and this isn't even, tan or anything else. With kindness. With respect. With support.

With intelligence. With a willingness to work through all the many conflicts that arose initially. Sure. To know each other. And when you find a being like that, what that does in terms of your physical sexual connection. Is that you're now, you're with somebody who you trust, who you know, could let down everything.

You could just take a breath and be with that being. And when that occurs and that occurs consistently, yeah. Day after day, week after week, year after year, it elevates everything. So it isn't okay, we found that we had a sexual chemistry. Which we did. But that, but I had sexual chemistry with other people.

Sure. But the thing is, were the people committed to the deepening of the relationship and were they capable of it? Were they capable and were they committed? Damaged or not conscious enough. To be able to really create a relationship. Yeah. So that really stands out and what I hear is the, not only the commitment, but the capacity to do the deep dives and to do the deep work of really putting the soul to soul connection above everything else day after day, month after month, year after year.

I wanted just say, something interesting that after Judith and I met, of course there was chemistry. We were at a puja actually, where we met Yes. And Oh, walked the room and I looked at her. Ooh. And smiled. And she looked back at me and smiled. And we both connected in that instant.

Yeah. Wow. And after the Pusha was over, we made an agreement to get together and we went out the following weekend. And that was 18 years ago. Yes. And after, I think it was about our third date, juth said to me. I'm looking for a husband and I said, I'm looking for a long term relationship. And she said, I'm looking for a husband, Uhhuh.

I said that would be a long term committed relationship, right? So I said, here's the deal. Let's commit to each other right now and let's do that for 90 days and see how it works. And let's see how deep. And how fast we can go deep. Wow. We did that. What I discovered was that Judith was really authentic.

She could really just be Judith. And she put up with no bs. And mean, it was just like, and I went, amen. Yeah. Sometimes it was uncomfortable and she would get. Riled up when I'd call her on her bs, so the idea was to stay there and work on it.

Yeah. No matter what. No matter what. And as she said, what made our relationship magic was our commitment to our connection. And we walk on that and fought for it every day in rituals that we do several times a day. I don't know. That's my 2 cents worth. I love it. I love it.

Not only the commitment and being capable of that kind of deep connection, but I also hear the, both of you were really ready for doing this kind of deep dive into intimacy and relationship when you met each other. And I love the 90 day commitment. I just think, wow, what a. What an ecstatic 90 days to explore with someone in that kind of way.

The other thing that I really hear in both of you are sharing is, the authenticity that you both were ready and practiced in bringing to your two relating and to intimacy. Yeah. First of all, when he said, let's go as fast and deep, he said it very quickly. He's the fighter pilot, and he goes boom.

He said, and he said it fast. He didn't say he said it, no. He said, okay, let's go as fast and deep as we can. And he scared the shit out of me, to tell you the truth. Yeah. I had this of a fear I was bringing up I don't wanna, I'm not. To state you. I'm looking for a husband, basically. If that doesn't, that's not your thing.

I don't even wanna go on. With my subtext behind, I'm looking for a husband. I didn't expect that kind answer. Let's just go as fast as we can. Yeah. So challenge Sure gave me a challenge. Yeah. It's almost like you pulled out four queens and he pulled out four Kings and talked you there.

I'll see you and raise you. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And also I wanna say, it wasn't in the beginning. Of course it. I was 60 years old when I met him. He was 69 and now I'm 78 and he's 87, right? So we met each other. We were ready. We were sure. Ready. Yeah. Took a long time to get ready.

But because I've had so many relationships, right? Divorce from one divorce, I. I wasn't, we didn't have that kind of honeymoon period very long. I see Uhhuh and said, let's go. And we really did get into things that. That were issues uhhuh and were different between us and or our own baggage or whatever it was.

So even within the 90 days we had to work. Yeah. We didn't have, an extended bliss period. I see. I see. We had board and we had the attraction, we had the desire, the excitement. But we also, had to roll up our sleeves. Yeah. But you guys were ready and willing to do that because you guys understood that's what it takes.

You're being authentic with each other. The thing that really inspires me is that as you just mentioned, Judith, you were 60, Frank was 69, and you guys were ready for the relationship of your life. At that juncture having, wanting to take advantage of all the lessons you've learned along the way, which so inspires me.

Because I feel like a, I think there's a stereotype out there about people in their golden years, of hanging up that, hanging it up, when it comes to sex and intimacy, not realizing they, they can be. They can be priming themselves for the relationship and the sexual pleasure of their lives as you guys have experienced.

Yes. Yeah, that's true. It's so great. Okay, so I wanna get into the magical sex book. There are sex, I'm sorry. Yeah, please thing. I think it's very important. In the first year I got cancer, I remember that gastro lymphoma, and we were only dating a year. That was serious cancer. Yeah. And and being able to navigate through that together and stay together.

Yeah. And love each other was a really big challenge. Because you know what? In the groups that I was in of women, even their husbands left them. Wow. Husbands and boyfriends. A lot of men couldn't stick around. Yeah. When there was that kind of threat and that kind of pain? Sure. I went down 96 pounds and I was bald.

So I can say that, during the honeymoon period that I was the most beautiful I'd ever been. I was really like, scary. It was less than 96. It was 92, I think. Oh, wow. A ball. So in your later years, you may come into this, but that's again where the commitment comes in.

The commitment that says, okay, I want this kind of relationship and I'm willing to fight for it, and I'm willing to fight for that person and for us. Yeah. Yeah. Looking back, it was really I would not wish that experience on anyone, but it really showed your true colors.

'Cause I remember, to be honest with you, I remember I just have these images or memories of how devoted Frank was to your healing journey. I can't remember the like where I picked that up, but I remember having, just getting that impression. And you guys Yeah, I can imagine, how.

How many layers you really got to see and feel and relate with each other, having gone through that a year into your relationship. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Someone of the many relationship books I read, the guy who talked about the cauldron. And being in crucible of relationships and you get ground up.

Yeah. And you gotta come outta it as something better. Yeah. But it's a process. It's difficult sometimes. It's not now. After 18 years, we're cool. But it's a good thing to tell people that even though you might go through some hard stuff, the point is you go through it.

You go through it. If you're being honest, if you love each other, if you're committed, you go through it and make it easier and easier, better and better. And you're closer and things are, yep. The bed big. Yeah. Too, your relationship goes through cycles of harmony, disharmony, and repair. It's just. Every relationship. It's just, you can't avoid it. So learning how to deal with it is a, is a real blessing. Yeah. Learning how to deal with it and also understanding that's the nature of relationships to not take the disharmony as a threat, but as an opportunity.

For deeper understanding and for that repair. Exactly. There, there's so many kind of directions we can go here. Like for example, Frank earlier mentioned the rituals that you guys do several times a day. I'd love to know more about that. Judith mentioning the cancer ordeal. I was curious how someone who goes, a body that goes to that, how do you.

Reignite the sexual aliveness and and pleasure in the body after the body's gone through that kind of, that kind of experience. And then I al I so wanna get into the chapters of your book as well, but as a jumping off point how about, I know there's a, there are sections in your book.

Where you talk about easy rituals that deepen intimacy and daily dues. Can you talk about that as a way of cultivating and reflecting that commitment and intimacy with each other? Yeah. Using rituals comes a lot from my fighter pilot background, Uhhuh, because there's processes you do when you fly.

You have to read a checklist, you have to go through certain procedures, and you have to do those, otherwise you might die, right? That's a ritual in our relationship, the rituals that we use. The first one we call morning worship. And we worship each other now. I know that, that sounds weird.

That sounds awesome. It sounds amazing. The way we do it, it's just really simple. We sit down usually at the breakfast table, ah, and I'll tell something like. I really love you. I love the way you create your art. I love the way you create your life. I love the way you help your clients.

I love your tits. They're beautiful. Just things like that. And it gets a giggle from her usually. And then I'll tell her something. And, it gets repetitive every morning, but it's not about what we're saying. Yeah. It's about how we're saying it and how I'm looking at her eyes.

Yeah. Love in my heart, and she's getting that. I love that. I love that. And then, and usually he's the one who starts, so I'm at the receipt point and I look at him and he's just so sweet and his intention is so earnest. It isn't just a, he.

The energy. So then I feel like, oh, I love you because I love how, what you love and I love, that you're a lover and I love what you're doing with your writing, and I love that cooked a delicious dinner last night and I, so whatever it's that you're feeling that you love about the person, but it's like picking up all the good things that you see.

Yeah. It's so interesting how, lovers feel so much of these things, but don't necessarily take the time and space to create a ritual and express and shower each other and nourish each other with how they feel. You have a fantastic way of summarizing and expanding a thought.

Everything, even on your, I just wanna, that's pretty amazing ability. Listen, so the second ritual we do is yes, at dinner and we do the evening news. And I, she says, tell me about your day. And I just I don't say it was okay. No. I say I got up in the morning, I did this after I read the paper, I did emails.

After I did that, I did, I I did some administrative work, paid some bills, do whatever. Then I started writing. Then I took a break and went to the markets and bought groceries. And I, on and on, and it sounds ridiculously boring, but the idea again, is not the words that I'm saying. It's the fact that I'm communicating with her, which in turn.

Generates oxytocin in her. And that's the bonding hormone. And that's what women love to talk is because when they talk, they connect. When they connect, they generate oxytocin and norepinephrine, and then dopamine and a few other things, and that makes 'em feel really good. So the idea of me telling her, Hey is not so much the information, although it can be important.

If I got something that's going on that like I'm stuck on my writing right now, I don't know what to do, then she can chip in and help me. And or if I have a problem with this guy I am working with, she can chip in and help me. What I say can be important, but the idea is that we're communicating yes, and we're keeping up that connection and that connection is what's gonna lead to ecstasy and magic in the bedroom.

Yes. Yes. I love that. Okay. There's a, the last ritual is before we go to sleep at night, we say three things that we are grateful for or appreciate that day. What's something that we liked about ourselves that day and something that we did for fun that day. And then there's one last ritual, and that's every Sunday is our day of worship.

And that worship means tantric ceremony. And every Sunday we take time to do a tantric ceremony. And we do that using those four steps I talk about in the book, the Magical Sex book. Yes. Yes. For listeners who don't have the magical sex books let's review those four steps. And you know how the four steps really distinguish, what can be ordinary sex to really sex magic, which is what the book is about.

Yes so I'll give you quickly the four steps and then we can talk about it, please. The first step is pre play. Pre, that's what comes before foreplay. Now most people know what, so we don't go into that too much. Then third is the play. The play be the play, could be oral or vaginal, penis and vagina sex or oral sex or whatever.

Yes.

And make that final connection. And then you take all that sexual energy that you've just created. And combine that with the energy of your thoughts, which you used to create. And that's like putting booster rockets on your thoughts because you put those thoughts to the universe with all that sexual energy.

And having that, your partner holding those same thoughts at that same time. That's. Rocket boost manifestation. In tantric circles, that is the sex magic we're really putting up to the cosmos, this orgasmic energy that's unlike any other as far as creation of manifestation.

But Frank, as far as the power of the four steps I, I think most of society. I think most men like the play. I think most women understand the importance of foreplay. I think most of mainstream society doesn't do a lot of pre play, and I think after play. Is this incredibly luscious potential in bonding and connection and communion that just goes out the window because people are so busy or they don't understand the significance and the imprinting in the body and the heart space that that, that could have.

Can you speak to the importance of pre play and after play? Yeah. Lemme speak to that.

Some clients who need to grow in terms of their relationship and also in terms of their sex. Pre play is like what you do when you're single and you go out on a date. So for play, you're just being with each other. You're just having fun. Yeah. You're just, like in, in business it'd be like schmoozing.

Before you do your pitch. Yes. Yes. Anything that you. Sexual. It could be watching something streaming that you love. It could be going for a walk. It could be going for a hike, it could be going for dinner. It could be like we would do in the pujas, the tantric ceremonies.

Yes. Dance. Yes. It could be listening to music. It could be, I don't know if you're into, you could be going swimming, whatever it is that you do together. That's fun. Yes. It's fun, it's relaxing, it's bonding. There are no stakes. Just, so that's the importance of pre play.

So it isn't okay, let's get down to business and have sex. Or even, let's get down to business and do foreplay, uhhuh, it's giving you that space and time. Be and connect. Yeah. I have to teach that to couples, especially men, in our book, the magical.

Appendix on things that you can do. Suggestions that you can use that are simple. The hand on heart exercise where you put your hand, an eye gazing. And just conversation while you're looking at each other, naked, sitting on the bed. It's great. It's great. Yeah. Just kind stuff.

But that sets the stage foreplay because. It gets you present in the moment connected to starting to connect to your partner in a way that's gonna lead to the ecstasy. Yeah. That's what we do a lot for pre-plan, breathing. We might spend and just talking sometimes. The emphasis seems to be on really connecting as soul to soul as human to human with, without having sex on the table or as a prelude to it, but just really connecting human to human.

Yeah. And this goes back to, like the rituals that you mentioned, the news of the day, and it's all about connecting and communication. So you really take the journey together. Love that. Love that. Yeah. I was gonna, I was gonna mention the appendix in the magical sex book.

It's full of. Wonderful pre play foreplay exercises and practices that are body based, that are somatic, so your body's engaged, which is so wonderful. Let's talk a little bit about after play. Play after play. Yes. So we don't have mutual orgasms. I think I've only had one my whole life and I don't even remember with who.

Sometimes the idea of striving for a mutual orgasm is distracting. What's really important for guys to get is that she comes first. You have to know the technique and the fact that the clitoris is the most important thing to know about. And yes. I'm just gonna digress for a minute, but there's nine, you probably know this.

There's nine pelvic nerves that come down from the brain and they go to different places on different people. That's why no two women are the same, right? And two, no two lives are the same. Some people have very sensitive anus, some people have very sensitive perineum. Some have, it just goes on and on knowing that stuff.

And now when you get. Orgasm. She has her orgasm, and we usually have a list of things that we wanna manifest. And when she has her orgasm and she's starting down I say the magical words that, that are gonna help us visualize creating what it is we wanna manifest. Then after her orgasm, then I have my orgasm, whether it's through intercourse or masturbation or whatever.

When I have my orgasm again, we go through the ritual of saying the things that we wanna manifest. So now the play is over, we're transitioning into after play. Yes. And usually what happens is I'm laying on my back and she puts her head on my chest and her knee over my midsection and I, my arm is around her and we just laid there cuddled.

For 10 or 15 minutes, we may talk. We may not talk. We may doze. We may just breathe together. Just feel that we've already put the magic out into the universe. We let that sexual energy that we just created envelop each other and just take that because it may be another week before we get to, to visit that again.

So we want that energy. Us through the next week. Yeah, that's, I, maybe it's 15 minutes, 20 minutes that we spend in play. Yeah. You're really marinating, you're marinating in the energy, which is, sacred. It's a sacred energy and then especially the shared energy is so juicy and pot and powerful.

It's almost like wasting. The best part of a meal. It's cleaning up the dishes before you get to taste that juiciness, from the marinade. Sorry, Judith, I interrupted you. No, I love how you listen. I just it's really a trick for me to hear how you listen to stuff and where you go with it.

I'm sorry I interrupted you because it's like what you just said, it's like the after play. Yes. What we said, we marinate in how you give it back to us. I love it. We can marinate in the after play now. I was gonna say the first, so that's why they do that. Men, women in the hormone. Yes. Talk about why it's hard for men to have after play.

Because especially men Ropa. Yes. When they orgasm, the testosterone, shoots up. It goes down. Yes. So oxytocin, which is the bonding hormone, is what explodes in a man. And he feels all that part of the ecstasy. It's the bonding. Which is chemical of what Oxytocin does. However. Testosterone, oxytocin in men, so they don't feel that very much, but the most they ever feel it is when they orgasm. But very soon the testosterone comes in. And now they're not feeling like bonding. Because they're full of testosterone. Now they wanna go watch a game, or now they wanna go eat, or now they wanna go, they wanna do something.

Yeah. Yeah. But for a woman after play is what she always wanted because women are very full of oxytocin all the time. A lot of things trigger oxytocin. Verbal communication is a big one. It's a puppy or a child. In the, it's, it a woman experiences oxytocin, hopefully, if she's having.

A life many times a day. And it's very, of course, huge in orgasm. But after the orgasm, it keeps growing. CIN is widening out like, and this oxytocin has now been shut off and replaced by testosterone. So for a man to have after play. It's for many men, like a learned response.

It's something they have to condition themselves to. It's something they have to be vulnerable to or open themselves to feel. Now men who have been through, which is also discussed, and so that's how they do that. Men, women in their hormones, that's why they do that. Yeah. Are low on testosterone.

And when they get low on testosterone, they get high on estrogen and oxytocin. Which is why men mellow at that age is why men wanna connect more. It's why they're more sensitive. It's why they want more emotional meaning to their life. And we were talking about this before, there's testosterone replacement, so a man doesn't have to.

Oh, one of the things I did wanna say, if the man doesn't do testosterone replacement by 58, he has more estrogen than a 58-year-old woman. Wow. Who's gone through menopause because she doesn't have. Her estrogen and oxytocin are way down. She's not producing it. But he is. Why they say, gee, women get harder, men get softer. Now all of this, in this mix comes, you do bioidentical hormone, replacement hormone, both for men or women. But even with that, I think, and I actually should find out men. Replacement. Still have so much more oxytocin that they mellow and they become richer on that level.

I know Frank did.

Anyhow, that's why, getting back to your question about after play, yeah. It's hard for men who are younger to do that. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Judith and Frank's book around the hormones, it's just rich and filled with. I think information that everyone that, we should learn it like math with like math, English, and science.

It's something our bodies go through and it affects us so profoundly. Again, the book. So that's why they do that about men, women, and hormones. So guys, I wanted to, I wanted you to cover something because I'm sure you see it a lot when you're coaching couples. The book, the Magical Sex Book.

Really goes through erogenous anatomy so thoroughly oral breath, multiple orgasm practices. It's really wonderful. And as we spoke to earlier, it's really the intimate connection, the heart to heart communion that kind of carries that sexual ecstasy. The question I have for you guys is for couples who have been together for.

Many years, maybe many decades, and have fallen into limiting intimacy patterns. How do you support and coach them to reinventing or rebirthing not only the sexual intimacy, but the, relational, emotional love affair? Because I see this a lot with clients, been married, 15, 20 years, they get into a routine.

They get into patterns sexually where they feel like they're in a box. I've run into that too and I tell people, you have to create it. You have to create it. It's not gonna happen, right? It's not gonna happen unless you both are committed to making a change. The intentionality has to be there from both of them.

You have to. We really wanna do what's gonna turn you on, right? 'cause everybody says I don't feel any desire. That's normal. The desire's not there because at this stage of our life, it takes arousal. Desire. Desire doesn't create arousal. So if you do the things that you do to reconnect on a higher level than you've ever done before, we're in our, the third act of our life.

What do we want to do here? And what can we do together? How can we support each other in doing what we wanna do to keep ourselves engaged and live in the process of life? And part of that is sex. Yes. And if we do the thing on Sunday morning, I may have zero sexual desire, but we have a commitment to meet in the bedroom with our clothes off.

And go through those steps, and then desire appears because the connection between us. Yes. I know every inch of her body. Yes. And I can, it isn't like it's a new thing for me. What's. What's beyond that is the reach of her heart. To my heart. Yeah. Which goes right down to my genitals.

Yeah. And that's, you have to be conscious. And you have to create it on a daily basis and pre play actually starts immediately after the last orgasm. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. It goes on and on. And that's what our rituals are all about. It's just a disguised pre.

Yeah. I love that. I think that's so powerful because, in rituals, the bo the, the body has its memory. There are somatic patterns that, that get, get imprinted in our touch receptors that will then respond, based on its memory. So these rituals are so important, and I love that you brought up, that weekly ritual, whether no matter what mood you're in, because then the body, it gives the body a chance to come online, and then the desire can really come on con, come online as well.

There's, I love the thing that. We used to say, suit up and show up. So in this case it's uns up, get naked and show up. Yeah. Again, ally after menopause a lot of women get very dry. Yes. And painful. When you do for me it's bioidentical hormone replacement.

It say yes. Yes. Yes, that's helpful, but it, but even with that, your body isn't producing it, so you're putting something onto your body. A cream. So it's, but it's not the same as when you produce it yourself, it just isn't. Yes. And you don't have a cycle, a fertility cycle.

Where every month, at the middle of the month, you're fertile. So the body is full of desire and wants connection. It's automatic. It's you're, you're hot in the middle of the. There are no, there isn't a cycle. So when you're in a long-term relationship, you don't have a cycle happening.

You don't have the same kind of hormones you. You had before. And for me especially after the cancer, so that could be in the chemo, so that could have been also part of it. That desire just isn't there automatically at all. Created. And is you could, not only can you create it, but with Frank, I've had even after the cancer and after. Menopause. I've had the most fulfilling, most beautiful, most ecstatic sex of my life. Created by us. It wasn't, yes. Didn't automatically come with a fertile. Who didn't necessarily have to be conscious, but if you are a fertile young woman and you're conscious, oh my God, what, the potential there. But Judith, I think what you're saying is so important for listeners to understand, especially couples who've been in long-term marriages and feel like the in, the intimacy isn't happening anymore. It really takes conscious intentionality. It takes practice, ritual, and, experiences to, to fuel the desire, to support the desire and the body can respond in kind. And I think it's so inspiring what you said earlier, post menopause, post cancer and chemo. You're, you've experienced the best sex of your life with Frank and you're in your prime golden years, which is just so fantastic.

Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Golden years. Oh, yes. I'm saying every morning when I get up and go, oh God, everything hurts. Your pri, I should call 'em your prime years. Because sexually you are in your prime years. Which brings me to my next question as far as rituals and practices and really like sexual self care.

There are a lot of exercises and practices in the appendix of the magical sex book. What are some things that you would recommend to listeners who are also in their golden years and don't consider themselves in their primal sex years? What advice do you have for them to get in to fuel the desire to really take care of their bodies so that they are primed to have the best sex of their life?

I, for me, I, that being in physical shape? Yes. It's important to me. I, yes, and I wanna, I wake up every morning and the first thing I do is go do, oh, maybe 10 minutes of exercise, some pushups, some planks some stretches. Great. And, just enough to get my body moving. And I know Judith has a half hour ritual of yoga that she does every morning right after she gets up.

So keeping our bodies fluid and yes. Alive fibers, yes. It's really important because if your body doesn't wanna work, it's not gonna happen. So doing that, and then as far as man goes, my, my sexual appetite has always been high. Yeah. And ju it's much higher than Judas, so especially after the chemo.

Yeah. I don't put pressure on her uhhuh to meet my sexual demands. I take care of myself and whether I watch porn or however, I do self stimulate and I do, sometimes I don't ejaculate. I'll just get to the point where I think they call it edging. Yes. Where I'm close to the brink of orgasm but I don't go over the brink.

Sometimes I don't. But the idea is keeping. Those channels open. Yes. And as a friend of mine says, you have to celebrate Eros every day. And arrows is the life force energy. Yes. And to me, it's a source. It's a source of creative energy because sex. Is the source of creation.

We create human beings through sex. So if you use that sexual energy to empower your brain and from the top trip practices, we can take that sexual energy from down in the first shopper and bring it up to the top chara. And that's what creative energy flows. Yes. You older guys like me, put that into your your toolkit, yes. Just think about it. I'm not depending on Judith for my sexual fulfillment. I'm in charge of my own sexual fulfillment. And women have to be that way themselves If they're, if their guy is not up to doing it as often as they want it, there's nothing to stop and the hand reaches exactly into the right place and you can go take care of that stuff however you wanna do it.

Whether it's buy a hand or buy toys or whatever. But the idea is keep that aeros energy awake. Yeah. Yeah. For me, it, it is different anyway. Men and women are different anyway. Like I said, desire isn't something that I feel. I occasionally feel it, but it's very occasionally.

It's, it's created. To be honest, getting older and I'm gonna go back. Things changed me a lot after the cancer. Yes. The chemo was difficult. It took me about six years to feel normal. I see. And I've never felt. As good afterward as I felt before I had cancer.

And so as you get older too, a lot of things can happen to your body, so there can be a little bit of a struggle or a challenge in getting yourself to even feel good. When I even took a about step. Which is saying getting up that day and being able to feel good enough to live that day.

And every day I need to psych myself, honestly. In the morning when I wake up. I have to say, okay, this is how my body feels and I know I feel better once I do my exercise. I know I'm gonna feel better after breakfast. I know once the day goes rolling, it's gonna be good. I just gotta get myself, I have to talk myself into it.

I have to set my goals for the day. What's gonna happen today? Oh, today's a great day. We're gonna talk to Ralphie. That's gonna be so much fun and I love him. That kind of thing. So part for some women, depending on how well they are and what's happening with their body in terms of self care is really that kind of thing. Being touching their body doing whatever they can to heal it. I have good doctors. The various things I try to. And I, we, I go a lot to the doctor for various things. Feel good and to feel optimum. I do yoga. First thing in the morning.

Make sure I keep, have good dental hygiene. Sure. All those things for self care in terms of an old woman. Yeah. So that a, you can live the next day, yep. And B, you are taking responsibility for, where your body is and what it needs, and doing the best you can.

Nutrition, right? Yeah. And also mental health. Ensure that you're doing the things that. Make you feel better and positive? Yes. Making sure that like either talking yourself into it or if, taking a walk or doing your yoga or taking a run or whatever it is.

Seeing your grandkids, whatever it is that elevates your mood. Yes. You make sure you do it. It's like the whole part of how do you, what, how do you create ecstatic sex? You create it. Yeah. It doesn't just automatically to you, especially in old age, older age. Nothing. I can tell you this.

Nothing comes automatically to me an older age, Uhhuh. It's like I'm really busy creating everything. I'm creating my health. I'm creating my, emotional, mental wellbeing. I'm busy creating my relationship. The thing that does come easy though, is my counseling to be truthful. And more and more my art.

But that's only by the time I get to them, I've already psyched myself up. I've taken care of my body. Yeah. I've eaten my breakfast. I, make sure I'm out in the air. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the kind of self-care yeah. Mindful. Yeah. And being intentional and I hear from both of you how important self-care and self generating self-care is.

Frank, I love what you shared about, taking care of your own sexual eros and needs and making sure the energy is circulating and the. I mean with that, the, the blood flow is circulating, the tissues are vibrant, the nerves are responsive. And Judith, it sounds like you're being very honest with yourself, being very compassionate with yourself and being very supportive of yourself, emotionally, physically and always.

And it sounds the rituals that you guys practice and enjoy, the love making as an expression of this heart to heart, communion and connection. Like it, it's all an expression of your commitment to the relationship and something you know, really higher than each of you. Guys, it's been so inspiring to speak with you.

How can people find you? How can people get in touch with you and get your, get ahold of your books? We have a website because I was a fighter pilot. The website is called Top Gun Love All one word com, top Gun Love. Easy to remember. Top gun love.com. And the reason we call it that is because. If people were to practice their love making Yes.

Like top gun pilots practice their craft. Yeah. Wouldn't that be amazing? Amazing. Wouldn't that? We had that kind of training and practice for our relationships and our love. So it's about having the discipline and the commitment to study and practice. What's gonna make you a top lover?

Love it. So love com and we're also on Amazon, the Magical Sex book. And both of you both of you coach and counsel, individuals and couples in love, sex and intimacy. Is that accurate? Yes. I also do I do personal career and relate and also. Personal career and relationship and sexual.

So for me, a lot of times it could even be one or a combination or all guys happy New Year. It's great to see you. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. I love this so much. Love you too, Ryan. So wonderful to talk with you and to see your face and to see your eyes. That energy, everybody that he.

Best. Ah, thank you. Thank you. I love you guys. I'd love to get together, have dinner sometime in February and and catch up in person. Let us know, okay? Will do.

Notice how you're feeling in your body right now.

What sensations and feelings are coming into your awareness?

How is this episode landing for you in your body?

Might there be daily rituals you would like to introduce and share with your spouse? Lover, erotic friend or with yourself

or maybe rituals for pre play, for play, the play and after play that you feel intrigued to explore as extended love making solo. Or with a partner,

 Thank you for listening to Your Body. Remembers Pleasure If this conversation supported you, the simple way to help this work reach more people is to leave a five star rating or a brief review. You'll also find more resources and teachings@rahichun.com. Until next time, take good care.